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Heber13 wrote:
Let’s stay supportive for cwald here. My heart goes out to you cwald, because I’m sure it is painful and scary and makes you mad. But, from my point of view, this could blow over once people get the right info from you.
My biggest question is: What are they afraid of that makes them so concerned about you and your situation?(Should you ask them that directly?) Agreed. See if it’s not about JD’s suggested new “Reformed Judaism”.
I can see where the SP’s mentioned that are very close to this situation (Logan and brothers stake) could have left a big concern with cwalds SP over a new Middle way church.
Distance yourself from that suggested “society” (or whatever you want to call it) and you’re likely good to go.
It sounds like the tragic part of this story is that your “situation” has been brought to the attention of the SP in regards to tithing and the church position that you currently hold.
Do I understand it that you are in the EQ presidency and the latest/new CHI reads that only full tithe payers can hold leadership positions?
I believe the “discipline” worries will quickly blow over, but removing you from a currently position in light of this is what I really feel bad about, not only for you but for the Church.
Hard, very hard choices, with deep impact into likely the second most important thing to the church … the family.
timpanogos wrote:…part of this story is that your “situation” has been brought to the attention of the SP in regards to tithing and the church position that you currently hold.
Do I understand it that you are in the EQ presidency and the latest/new CHI reads that only full tithe payers can hold leadership positions?
I believe the “discipline” worries will quickly blow over, but removing you from a currently position in light of this is…
Correct.
Heads up… according to this thread, it was part of your STAYLDS disclaimer that started some of this mess. I feel you are on the radar…. be careful Cwald – you are a prominent member of this forum, in my opinion.
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/53624-the-so-called-middle-way/ Jaykay wrote:Heads up… according to this thread, it was part of your STAYLDS disclaimer that started some of this mess.
I feel you are on the radar…. be careful Cwald – you are a prominent member of this forum, in my opinion.
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/53624-the-so-called-middle-way/ No question about it. I am being monitored. Even my face book status.
I enjoyed the link – especially Tao comments.
:yawn: And the fact that M&G is standing up and defending us over here.The mere fact that they have a middle way thread on the Mormon dialogue board this last few weeks makes me even more nervous. And yeah, they have contacted church headquarters about me – so that communication is very real. My identity on here is no secret. And to be perfectly honest, you could take scraps of the 1400 posts I’ve made here and put together a pretty good packet of evidence to use in a court that would certainly make me appear to be apostate and a threat.
cwald wrote:Jaykay wrote:Heads up… according to this thread, it was part of your STAYLDS disclaimer that started some of this mess.
I feel you are on the radar…. be careful Cwald – you are a prominent member of this forum, in my opinion.
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/53624-the-so-called-middle-way/ No question about it. I am being monitored. Even my face book status.
I enjoyed the link – especially Tao comments.
:yawn: And the fact that M&G is standing up and defending us over here.The mere fact that they have a middle way thread on the Mormon dialogue board this last few weeks makes me even more nervous. And yeah, they have contacted church headquarters about me – so that communication is very real. My identity on here is no secret. And to be perfectly honest, you could take scraps of the 1400 posts I’ve made here and put together a pretty good packet of evidence to use in a court that would certainly make me appear to be apostate and a threat.
I’ve been posting there for a couple of years and lurked before that. John Dehlin and the question of what to do with heretics or unorthodox members comes up with startling regularity. I wouldn’t be overly concerned. That board has a handful of posters who are combative, exclusive, and IMO completely out of sync with the teachings of the Savior and they tend to turn out en masse on threads where they can point fingers and shout “Apostate!” LOL! They are TBMs and are often unneccessarily defensive. The board also has its share of critics, trolls, exmos, nevermos, and average folk of which I am one. Still, most people there are kind and reasonable and I’m proud to call them friends.
SilentDawning wrote:I could see this as the starting point of a group of people who then take it one step further and start creating their own formal organization.
Heber13 wrote:If there is some “Middle Way” movement going on, who knows what they’ve done, said, or threatened to do to disrupt the church. There very well could be valid reasons for such a middle way group that took ideas and turned them in to apostasy actions that warrant discipline.
I think that this “Middle Way” group is me. And I am not scary. Why do I think it is me? Well, it fits me. My friend John Dehlin is in Logan, and he created a lot of internet content. I believe it’s worthwhile to explore a middle-ish way rather than turning my back on our Mormanity. And I use my real name and schedule social events in real life. That said, it’s really interesting (fascinating) to get from you the mythic and ominous description of me through the grapevine. Geez louise, people, there’s nothing scary about me. I don’t smoke, drink, cuss, hit, sue, steal, or chase around. If I and my friends here were guilty of anything, it was believing and listening too much. I would echo Ray’s statement about “The Middle Way”, and I only have one plea for the Saints regarding me:
Quote:Think of us and speak of us, not as a group, but as individual misfits. We didn’t join anything, we each experienced something unique. We are still your daughters and your brothers and your mothers, and we are still in your ward. Welcome us and we will stay. Excommunicate us and maybe we will stay anyway.
😆 cwald wrote:I will not “quit” though. If the church doesn’t want me and doesn’t want my “leadership,” than they need to have the guts to come out and just say so.
I love you, cwald. You are so awesome. May Heaven be with you always. And for what I’m worth, I will stand with you any day.
SilentDawning wrote:I think a better approach is to comment on the fact that until we see the face of God and have first-hand knowledge of the truth, we all have diversity and varying strengths in our beliefs.
The great cosmic surprise is that after we see the face of God, we STILL have diversity and varying strengths in our beliefs. Converging more nearly, but still diverse.
mercyngrace wrote:I would not use the phrase “My Way” because in the most recent GC
Nevertheless, Ray is merely being honest. We all have it our way. The great key to joy is unlocked when we see that everybody’s way is the way of a holy angel of heaven. We are all on the same team.
As for me, I’m good and happy. And I am a Mormon.
Cwald, I so very much admire how you have been handling all this. The level of focus, resolve and calm I feel from your posts is inspiring. You are a great example. The nature of your family being well-placed in stake leadership elsewhere, and deciding to spread their freak out like a plague, that just sucks man…
😥 There may have been some odd local movement there co-opting the “Middle-Way” wording as a label. Someone in a recent MS podcast, I think the NYC symposium one, mentioned that actually the Church freaks out more about right-wing, ultra-faithful radicals than they do about progressive intellectuals and academics. The dysfunctional fanatics are the ones who organize and draw in zealous followers. We’re all too much in the business of herding cats on the progressive side, LOL. Our MS Wash DC community can barely decide to meet at a restaurant or a park to get to know each other before it falls apart with nobody taking the lead
I have to see this as a very painful and unfortunate localized event and not the beginning of a Church-wide witch hunt. Plenty of others (like me) here and elsewhere use our real names, real pictures and mention our wards and stakes. I’m not hard to find, and I will definitely let people know if anyone contacts me.
I really don’t worry about it that much. I am not an enemy of the Church. I want it to be successful (in a good way, not at all costs). I spend a stupid amount of my free time, and even some personal money, trying to help people not be angry about their church experience, and even trying to help some people stay in the Church. I have a completely clear conscience about my involvement here or elsewhere, and I am proud of this site and all of you very inspiring people who participate here.
I do have to disclose though that I am satanic and gay too
😈 😆 😆 I think that is my new motto.Brian Johnston wrote:Cwald, I so very much admire how you have been handling all this. The level of focus, resolve
and calm I feel from your postsis inspiring. You are a great example.. apparently you haven’t’ read the letter over at NOM that I sent my brothers.
😳 cwald wrote:apparently you haven’t’ read the letter over at NOM that I sent my brothers.
😳 Hmm.
😯 Well, it’s never too late to say, “Sorry I overboiled. Can’t we make room for each other in this church?”cwald wrote:apparently you haven’t’ read the letter over at NOM that I sent my brothers.
😳 I only commented on your posts
here. Your maniac brothers deserve the Cwald wrath of doom + several volleys of the riot act!
cwald wrote:Brian Johnston wrote:Cwald, I so very much admire how you have been handling all this. The level of focus, resolve
and calm I feel from your postsis inspiring. You are a great example.. apparently you haven’t’ read the letter over at NOM that I sent my brothers.
😳 all things considered .. it seemed pretty honest and mild. I’d love to hear their responses, if any
xxxxxx well there you go, that right there is enough to start looking for a new avatar! I’m glad for you, for this kind response.
I hope your brother and you get that minute together that he mentioned!
“] Brian Johnston wrote:Cwald, I so very much admire how you have been handling all this. The level of focus, resolve
and calm I feel from your postsis inspiring. You are a great example.. I second, this comment, Brian. Cwald, you’re a stud!
It has been a rough two days for me. I spent several hours on the phone with the BP tonight. He reassured me that he has talked with the SP several times today, and the SP is convinced that I am “okay” and that there will be no witch hunt or disciplinary council at this time. Of course he said that I will be put out to pasture for the time being (callings), but asked me to continue to be part of the branch. Perhaps a great comment is when I told him that I don’t really feel welcome, he said that he doesn’t really care if I am a “middle way – non-tithe paying mormon” and don’t have temple recommend or not, I am still welcome as long as he is the BP. I can respect that.
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