- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
cwald wrote:
I also KNOW that thearea authoritywho is over the Cache Valley/Franklin County is not convinced, and the SPs in those areas have been contacted and they are concerned about the “middle way” rhetoric that this site espouses.
Do we know who the area authority is over Cache Valley?
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:“You are wrong and going astray, but I am right and not going astray.”
…is egotistical and sets the person up as a paragon of righteousness as opposed to those who are sinners. That attitude, at the very least, is a sign of arrogance…
Stepping back and looking at this point in a broader context [which I know has very little to do with the discussion at hand], I can’t help but see that we all possess this arrogance to some degree. We all do things and believe things because we see them as the best way to be/believe. Our way is what makes sense to us based on our lifetime of experiences. As a church we think we are more correct than others – and that is why we are on this path and not the others. As individuals we think we can make wiser decisions than others — which forms some basis for the decisions that we make.
When our perception is that we ARE on the “right” path, our human tendencies make us HIGHLY susceptible to this form of “self-righteous” pride. Even if we’re not on the right path, our individual beliefs can still make us susceptible to this arrogance or pride. I think that is why Joseph Smith said:
Quote:We teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.
It seems to me when we get beyond principles, and try to govern specific actions and individual decisions, we run the risk of becoming pharisaical and losing focus [is the sabbath made for man, or man for the sabbath?] Example: in the 1890’s the brethren were very concerned about card playing and “circle” dancing. They saw it as a source of much evil. The concern has trickled down to where my children cannot play an innocent board game in front of their grandparents because the game board displays some face card imagery.
Is this the best use of our energies — to be concerned about the images on innocuous games? This is the danger of stating specifics with too much energy. I would much rather have a conversation about violence in video games than images on some game board, to me that is much easier to tie back to the key principle of “as I have loved you… “
So anyway, a little off track there …but in the spirit of motes and beams I think we need to realize we are ALL a little arrogant, or at least a little prideful when it comes to our ideas and beliefs. How should that play out in our church [or StayLDS] setting? Is it okay to show a little pride in church where others share our common beliefs? Or should we try to tame our pride in all situations? We could think of it as gratitude for knowlege instead of pride, but in the end if we think our knowledge is in some way superior to the knowledge of others aren’t we still experiencing some pride?
I think it is well to aknowledge all areas of our human weakness, otherwise we have no ability to improve.
johndehlin wrote:Do we know who the area authority is over Cache Valley?
Isn’t it John Larsen? Whooops! Wrong church. My bad…
😈 Should I even joke about that? probably not.
cwald… I just wanted you (and any of your leaders/family reading this) to know I love you and I love this forum. I may not participate here much these days, but I still read it often and enjoy all of your wisdom. Were it not for this forum, the incredible work and compassion of John Dehlin (love those podcasts!) and great people such as you cwald and others… were it not for these avenues of support and validation, I would have surely left the church years ago. Instead I am still able to attend and contribute. My ability to find a “middle way” approach is the only thing keeping me in the church. If this approach is no longer welcomed there, then my days are surely numbered!
I just wanted you all to know how thankful I am for stayLDS, NOM, Mormon Stories, Mormon Expressions, and everyone who had uplifted and inspired me during my journey of growth and discovery!
love,
flower
Thanks flower. (I am updating my status on this thread for my SP brothers sake, since I know that he is following this thread and I want to be fair to him and the church.)
I don’t care to be a celebrity or a martyr as they talked about on NOM, and I think this all pretty well sucks.
It’s been a hellish three days. My family relations are shot. SHOT!
Here is what I know as of today. I am being monitored and my posts at StayLDS are being read. Now whether that is from church leaders or family members I cannot say for sure, but in my case it is BOTH.
My SP brother called my SP here in Oregon. I have been told that was out of obligation of his office and what the Area Authority has asked SPs to do when they find “middle way” mormons. Now, my family believes that makes it okay because it really isn’t a family member making the call but a church leader making the call. You can make up your own mind on that one. I have an opinion about it…
I was reassured that all this was just out of concern about my “spiritual well-being” because of some emails I had sent home, my facebook page religious status which was Buddhism at the time, and my involvement with “middle way” internet groups, and that church court was never part of the equation, they were only concerned about my “apostate” activity with online “middle way” groups, and some problems with “middle way” mormons in the Cache Valley area that I am friends with. If they have an official apostate group, I don’t know about it. I’m thinking that it’s just online activity such as NOM, mormon expressions, mormon stories and StayLDS. At least that is the feeling I am getting now.
My SP brother did call my SP back concerned about the “church court” wordage I used in my scathing email to him, and told family members it was never about church court — just concern.
My SP is not pursuing the investigation.
The words “church discipline” were used numerous times in my interview. I believe that perhaps my BP or SP got freaked out over these accusations? I don’t know. However, after hours of discussion, I will be okay.
The BP told me that I am getting released from EQP because “I don’t hold a TR and I am not a “full tithe” payer.” This is all true and that is the policy. I think it is important to note that I have had this calling for two years without a TR. But, it is the policy and I kind of knew this was just a matter of time.
The BP let me know last night that I will not be released from my other callings at this time, and that I am welcome and wanted in the branch, but I should careful about what I say to other church members.
I’m not sure if I’m going back now. I just don’t know.
There is no question that the leadership in the Cache Valley area are VERY concerned about the “middle way” idea that is floating around, and that they consider my involvement on John Dehlin’s StayLDS website as “apostate.” I have heard no mention of NOM from my sources – but if StayLDS is considered to be an apostate group….you get my drift. Mormon stories and mormon expressions were mentioned, but not by SP brother but from family members so…..
Also – there is no question that the leadership in the Cache Valley area are monitoring and reading these posts. I personally think that is a good thing because I think it would help them understand some of the sticky issues members have and how they might address the problems and make the church more palatable. But, it they consider it apostate, than obviously it is not. I will not speculate further about there motivation.
Out.
If any LDS Church leader at any level is reading this thread and has concerns or just questions, they should feel free to contact me. I am one of the administrators of the site. We can talk on the phone. I would be more than happy to talk about what is going on here in our community. You can reach me via email so I can send you my phone number:
brian.johnston@staylds.com .One other thing. Please note that there is a cyber-squatter camping out on the .ORG extension of our same domain name. We are pretty irritated about that, and have been for a while. That guy actually is an apostate and anti-mormon. We have no connection at all with him and his StayLDS dot ORG site.
timpanogos wrote:Tom Haws wrote:Please return with a definition of the apostasy that results from those things.
thought I did … see subsequent post quoting the same talk linked
My bad. I can’t find it.
🙂 One nice thing about having a goofy photo (of my own goofy mug) for my avatar is I’m not likely to be taken as a serious threat to anybody or resource for anybody. 😆 On the other hand, I’m always happy to to explain how committed I am to the LDS Church. My phone number is 4 8 0 2 0 1 5 4 7 6One pleasant thought about all this is that anybody who takes the time to do any real super-sleuthing is going to discover what a bunch of sweethearts we all are; problem dispelled, and back to the business of saving the world with the Good News of the Master.
Oh, one last awesome and anonymous quote: Quote:The thing is, none of this is really advocacy. These are support groups. There is no central tenet or doctrine in these groups and they run the gamut from true believing mormons to ex-mormons and everything in between.
Everything I have seen has been people sharing with others their struggles and ways they have overcome them.
I can’t think of any two people here who share the exact same “middle way” path in this group.
In a sense, we are pioneers in a new journey. In this new internet information world, we’re hit with tons of information and conflict that causes doubt and changes in belief.
However, we’re staying together in our wagon trains, putting our shoulders to the wheel, and trying to make sure we don’t bury ANYBODY along the way, no matter how sick or weak or hungry they get.
Wow! I love that. “…trying to make sure we don’t bury ANYBODY along the way, no matter how sick or weak or hungry they get.”
Holly Cow Man! I leave home for a few days, finnally get back to the site here and I see a Cwald post with 113 Replies and 2857 Views %&*^@#???? I havn’t had time to read all the others comments, but I did read all of yours. I agree with every positive thing that has been said about you cwald. I admire your courage and determination in defending the truth the way you see it. Perhaps a part of the issue is “how much you are loved”. I have only known you for a few short months yet your the great guy who says alot of things that realy help me and has a great, alien avitar. I can ony imagine how much your family really cares for you. Its funny how only now that I have a “view from out of the box” can I see how I really was when I was inside. If I were still a TBM and you were my brother, I would probably cry myself to sleep at night and do anything to get you back! f4h1
edit—-great letter cwald and especially the last paragraph–
“I think you’d be as aware as I am that that we have many people who are members of the church who do not have some burning conviction as to its origins, who have some other feeling about it that is not as committed to foundational statements and the premises of Mormonism. But we’re not going to invite somebody out of the church over that any more than we would anything else about degrees of belief or steps of hope or steps of conviction. … We would say: “This is the way I see it, and this is the faith I have; this is the foundation on which I’m going forward. If I can help you work toward that I’d be glad to, but I don’t love you less; I don’t distance you more; I don’t say you’re unacceptable to me as a person or even as a Latter-day Saint if you can’t make that step or move to the beat of that drum.” … We really don’t want to sound smug. We don’t want to seem uncompromising and insensitive”. –Jeffrey Holland
… Wow, following this thread takes considerable time… Living in paradise (California), I often get visitors from Utah. It happened this week, a handsome young couple (one of which has a father high up in the church in SLC). We supped together and talked at length about the pathways we currently tread. They are both pursuing masters. They are young, bright and diverse in their educational paths. I was rather low key as to my own current place in the Cosmos, but soon became aware they already knew of my “liberal views” (as opposed to the absolute TBM position I had lived with for decades). I wondered how they knew, but left it alone. They shared how they wished their father was lighten up and consider a new world view. They then asked directly what changed me?
I don’t lie. I said that Proposition 8 changed my association with the church forever. I explained what I experienced in my own stake. They were spell-bound. Often they said, “that’s so revealing, that’s so interesting.” They asked if I would ever consider returning to the church (they know I hold one borderline calling, and attend part of my block). I told them no, I would never pay a full-tithing or seek a temple recommend again. I would be as active as I choose, enjoy church friends, help as I could, and probably my culture would always be Mormon, but integrity is now my pathway to God. They said that prop 8 has been the worst PR disaster in a hundred years. They felt my SP/ecclesiastical leaders went way over the top (you don’t think?).
Far to soon our time was finished. We hugged and expressed our love toward each other. Would that the church would listen to this generation, my own thirteen grandchildren included (five currently in BYU colleges).
Like Brian, I am one of the original admins of this site. If anyone wants to contact me directly, send an e-mail to curtisraydegraw @ juno . com . It might take me a week or so to read a message to that account and respond, but I will do so when I check that account. I would be happy to provide a phone number to anyone who wants to talk. I also didn’t think to mention the anti-Mormon “.org” site that was started by the cyber-squatter as a “shadow” of our .com site. Thanks for pointing that out, Brian. It’s FAR too easy for someone to end up there and think it’s us, if all they know is the “StayLDS” moniker. It’s a horrible, anti-Mormon site and has absolutely NOTHING to do with us.
I’ve been following this thread and feeling a range of emotions. My strongest emotion is compassion and empathy for cwald, jwald and their family. My heart goes out to all of you. I really do hope there is a silver lining around this. I can’t express strongly enough how important this site has been to my faith journey. It has provided me with support when I didn’t have ANYONE I could share my thoughts, feelings and questions with. I live in a predominantly LDS community where I’m sure it is better to be an inactive cigarette smoking mormon than one who doubts or questions the church and holds 3 callings. I have especially appreciated cwalds comments and advice and because of his example and others in this community I work very hard at stayingLDS. I understand that most LDS that “know” the church is “true” and would defend it with their lives will have a very difficult time understanding where I’m at. (2 years ago I would have too) But I’m really hoping that Covey’s 5th habit will help them through. Seek to understand us. Most of us didn’t go looking for a change in our worldview, it just fell into our laps and now we are trying our very best to navigate a journey not very many LDS have ever admitted to or written about. I feel very blessed to live in a time where I can find this support on the internet and I really hope we will always feel free to be supported in this way.
CG
Hi Everyone, I was thinking today just how blessed I am to find StayLDS.com. I may not be a tbm but there are active LDS members here who post and support those of us who are inactive or less active and for that I am soooooooo grateful. The last little while I have noticed some regular active members who post here and guys, I must say, you guys honor your priesthood by being supportive and encouraging on this site. Thanks for being part of this great work. Ladies, too, who encourage and support the less active or inactive. Thanks for your great contributions.
I think with a site like this I have hope that someday I will be an active member. Being able to vent here is helping me on the path to greater happiness and peace as an LDS member in spite of my disaffected past.
BLC (not be be confused with BLT lol : )
- The topic ‘An ominous developement for Middle Way Mormons’ is closed to new replies.