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Didn’t the word get out that gayness isn’t something you can’t just change. You can shock the gayness out of someone even with sticking electrodes to someone’s junk. :crazy: http://www.sltrib.com/news/3196734-155/rolly-mormon-congregation-at-byu-idaho-scraps ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.sltrib.com/news/3196734-155/rolly-mormon-congregation-at-byu-idaho-scraps Quote:The American Psychological Association’s reviews have found sexual-orientation conversion therapies to be not only ineffective, but also potentially harmful.
The “Mormon Moment” is past!!!!
People who didn’t understand biology made some attempts to heal through using leaches. That went away when they understood things better. That is why science works…you fail and learn from the failure that there is a different law at play.
This is why I’m convinced in time, the church will change its policies. Because they are limited by what they see now. I hear the church more readily acknowledge now that the issue is complex, and not yet understood. They no longer advocate electroshock therapy. Right?
While they don’t understand (and they acknowledge that) they are proposing the policy be in place until further light and knowledge is given them. To me, that is different than knowing for certainty what God’s will is on this matter.
As science helps us learn, then gospel principles can be more clearly taught. Science and religion can be symbiotic.
LookingHard wrote:
Didn’t the word get out that gayness isn’t something you can’t just change. You can shock the gayness out of someone even with sticking electrodes to someone’s junk.:crazy:
I have a gay friend who underwent this
therapy. And, I am aware of others who did it as well, encouraged by LDS officials. It was a massive flop. Unfortunately, and specifically for my friend, it has done permanent damage to his body. Mistakes have certainly been made. It is very sad that such mistakes caused so much suffering, all in a quest to “fix” someone who was presumed fundamentally broken.
All of this points out how very challenging it is to have measured conversations about homosexuality. In my opinion, those that oppose homosexuality do so, not JUST because of a religious injunction, but because the very thought of the act is so deeply repugnant to them. They can’t imagine why anyone would want to do THAT! Those on the other side of the issue have years of suppression and criticism and rejection they are working through and finally, after many many years, they have a voice that will be heard. Others simply have family members they can not bring themselves to reject despite the choices they make (it brings to my mind the themes of “Fiddler on the Roof”). On either side, people struggle with what is ultimately deeply emotional, deeply personal, and all encompassing. It doesn’t surprise me that this issue can’t be resolved with official clarifications, faith-based explanations, and a quick interview with an Apostle. These things have been boiling beneath the surface. In some ways, it seems good that all parties involved are forced to finally face this issue and deal with its messy implications. I hope we all come out the better for it.
What Gerald said. This is a religious issue specifically because it is so deeply a human issue.
Gerald wrote:All of this points out how very challenging it is to have measured conversations about homosexuality. In my opinion, those that oppose homosexuality do so, not JUST because of a religious injunction, but because the very thought of the act is so deeply repugnant to them. They can’t imagine why anyone would want to do THAT! Those on the other side of the issue have years of suppression and criticism and rejection they are working through and finally, after many many years, they have a voice that will be heard. Others simply have family members they can not bring themselves to reject despite the choices they make (it brings to my mind the themes of “Fiddler on the Roof”). On either side, people struggle with what is ultimately deeply emotional, deeply personal, and all encompassing.
It doesn’t surprise me that this issue can’t be resolved with official clarifications, faith-based explanations, and a quick interview with an Apostle. These things have been boiling beneath the surface. In some ways, it seems good that all parties involved are forced to finally face this issue and deal with its messy implications. I hope we all come out the better for it.
I had an experience that changed my way of thinking years ago. A long time ago for some reason I was in the office of a mental healthy professional (not for any particular reason), and I am usually drawn to bookshelves to see what is there. I’ve read a LOT of books on various mental health subjects because it is just a curiosity to me. I noticed on this man’s shelf several books about SSA. I asked him about it, and he told me something that changed me, making me think in different ways then I ever had. He said this:
“Imagine you are on on a beach dock and a young beautiful woman walks by in a bikini. You would probably notice her and be drawn to watching her…right?” (I acknowledged this was in fact true…I would look.) “Well, now imagine that a gay man is standing there and a young built man in an attractive bathing suit walks by. He would have the exact same feelings you have, but it would be directed toward the man he was watching.”
I had an aha moment. I didn’t understand exactly how this would happen, but from the gay man’s perspective, he wouldn’t understand how this would happen for me either (looking at the woman). It really was an eye-opener for me to see things in this new light.
I’ve got several gay friends, and they can confirm things are like this for them, as it is for me had a woman walked by.
When I heard years later about the suicide rates happening from the LGBT community in Utah, this opened my eyes in a whole new way. I was utterly shocked and stunned. What I do know because I have a very good connection with my own self, including my own sexuality, is that being male for me includes sexuality that runs to the very core: it is who I am. To alienate someone from their very sexuality can damage them at the very core. If someone came along to me, for example, and explained that to be saved (and not damned) I had to change my sexuality and direct it toward men, this would be impossible for me, but it is way more complex than this.
Another aha moment happened to me years later.
I was out walking a country pathway with a very good friend who was also gay. This man had been married in a heterosexual relationship and had children. After years of “pretending”,…he couldn’t take it any longer. He made a decision to leave, to adopt and live in harmony with his feelings (which he tried for years to change to no affect), and faced discipline in the church and was excommunicated. He was subjected to the whole: “Oh, you just need to have enough faith!”…and the damning statements that came along: “you are still gay because you didn’t have enough faith!”.
He told me something on that walk that again, like I said above, was another aha moment. He said: “My sexuality influences my entire being. It is not just about sexual preference in bed; it colors how I see the world–my taste in clothing, my preference for food, my choice of music and other entertainment. It is part of who I am at the very base of my core.”
Ahhhh,…OK. I heard him.
When we talk about LGBT issues, they run deeper than just basic sexual preference–we are talking about the very essence of what defines a person. When we talk about this being counter to God’s plan–how LGBT people can’t be exhaulted in the CK at all UNTIL AFTER they are “fixed”–it is like saying they as people, at the very core, are wrong.
What an utterly shaming way to treat someone. And how can someone have faith in a system that treats them as though they were born wrong at the very core?
I see this message happening in many ways,…and it is fundamentally devastating to people. The suicide rate doesn’t surprise me. The fact that it is tolerated and in many instances ignored?…that bothers me greatly.
Hope this post helps in some way. My understanding has grown from the experiences I had above, that is for sure.
Quote:Heber13 wrote: People who didn’t understand biology made some attempts to heal through using leaches. That went away when they understood things better.
THREAD JACK:
Leeches are still used in medicine. When fingers are re-attached, arteries and veins are sewn back to allow blood flow. The venous return is usually very sluggish compared to the stronger arterial flow. This can cause huge swelling in the fingers, resulting in loss of the re-attached finger. This is handled by applying leeches to the re-attached finger until the venous flow normalizes.
The leeches show up in a plexiglass container full of a leech water solution. It is called a “Leech Mobile Home”. They are used one time and destroyed.
We sedate patients before applying leeches, because leeches are effective but very gross.
I would be fine with leaches. Or even maggots to help clean a severe burn area. I am close to having hemochromatosis (too much iron in the blood) and I had to laugh at what the treatment is- a good occasional blood letting! So far I just donate often and that has taken care of it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Double REDS!!
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