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I fear I may be too addicted to this site. My posts are usually too long, too frequent, and I have been too eager to read everything on ever topic. In a cheesy analogy, I have felt as if I’ve been unplugged from the Matrix, seen a new world around me, and tried to soak it all in at once as often as possible. In doing so, I may have become selfish and may have unintentionally sinned. I have opened a door to doubt everything in my life, and fear I have let this spirit of doubt enter my home and affect my family, the very thing I am struggling to hold together.
My daughter is amazing, and at 14, she teaches me. We are close. We talk often. I hold interviews regularly with her, and tonight we had an impromptu one. She opened up and said, “Dad, I don’t want to go to church anymore. Its not that I doubt God exists or Christ did what He did, it is just that I HATE going to church and I feel bad every time I go. I’d rather stay home and read general conference talks or have FHE with you. I just hate church and people there are so fake and judgemental.”
I was able to hold myself together, and we talked for about 45 minutes, established that the church isn’t about how good people are, it is about learning about Christ and His teachings. Just like you don’t want to go to school, but you have to go if you want to progress to college or a career in today’s society (and some days really aren’t so bad at school), we have to continue to go to church as a family, and we will work as a family to hold FHE after Church and try to learn what we need to as a family. She said ok, thanked me, and headed off to text message her friends.
When she was gone, I broke down. I haven’t told anyone about my messages I’ve left on this forum, or my thoughts and doubts over the past months. My wife is struggling with her own issues, my mom and sisters and brothers have been close to me, but I haven’t opened up to them on church topics. My bishop is a great guy and talks to me frequently, but I just tell him I’m studying a lot right now, that’s all. I have kept this to myself and to my new cyber-friends who I learn from on this and other sites.
All I can think of is when my daughter needs me most at an important cross-roads in ther life, I’m not going to be able to give her any answers. In the past 2 weeks, I have started feeling many of my prior TBM beliefs returning to me, and that has felt good and peaceful to me. But there is still much about prayer, revelation, church direction, and if “one true church” actually exists or not, that I feel hypocritical telling her she needs to go to church when I am dragging myself there every week (except last week I skipped). If she knew how weak her dad was right now, would that be enough to just push her off the edge when so many decisions she is going to be making in the next few years will be critical to her life?
I fear, that my current doubts have weakened the spirituality in our home, and I’m already seeing the effects of it. I am either guilty of inviting doubt and confusion into our family and driving away the spirit, or I am guilty of being unprepared as a parent to teach my children in zion what they need to know to get them through their critical times in life.
I take these responsibilities on my own head…and feel an urgency now to resolve my issues before I allow them to impact those around me that matter the most to me. While I need this forum and your perspectives as a healthy outlet for myself, I better start to focus more on my kids, since I have been unaware during my own introspection, that they too may be struggling with similar issues around faith. God help them with the gift of faith.
Is there any advice you can provide on how to talk to my kids about their doubts when I’m riddled with my own?
Heber13 wrote:Is there any advice you can provide on how to talk to my kids about their doubts when I’m riddled with my own?
As I’m sure you can tell, I’m addicted to this forum too.
Surprisingly, I have no advice. I think it’s so courageous of you to even be confronting this, I’m impressed. I will say that if my dad had said to me what you’ve been thinking about saying, it would have saved me years of low-self worth and emotional brokenness. But that’s just me. Please take with huge grain of salt.
My immediate reaction: Repentance means nothing more than “change” at its core. What you are going through is a true repentance process – NOT in the classic “bad man becomes good man” construct that most members picture, but in the wonderful “good man examines self to become better” process.
Frankly, I’d share your experience with your kids – in an age and individual child appropriate way, of course, but openly and honestly. I’d start out by talking about how you used to take everything at face value and just believe – because that’s what you thought was expected of you and because it’s easier to do that. I’d mention that you went through an intense and difficult time of doubt – where you weren’t sure what you personally believed. I’d mention that you are gaining a PERSONAL understanding and testimony of many things that you took for granted before – and that you still are trying to figure a lot of stuff out. I wouldn’t go into specifics unless someone asks, but I’d end by talking about what repentance really means – that’s it is more about changing who you are in a positive, intentional way than about beating yourself up over past mistakes – that Jesus paid for our past mistakes and freed us to pursue progression and positive change and joy.
Actually, I’d end by telling them that you now understand deeply why people have doubts and concerns and struggle with various things – and that you are willing to talk with each and every one of them at any time about any doubts or concerns or struggles they are having. I’d tell them that it’s perfectly fine to struggle – that having real faith actually is founded on being willing to work through struggles and not just “give up” when we don’t understand something. It’s not passive acceptance, but proactive and focused effort to figure it out and learn – to “gain knowledge” by both study AND prayer/contemplation.
That’s my gut reaction. It is a scary proposition in many ways, but I think your children can gain tremendous strength and insight if they know they aren’t the only ones who struggle – and that, conversely, they can feel inadequate and even “bad” if they think they are alone in their struggles.
Thanks Ray, thanks Swim. I will take those comments into deep consideration. Especially the part Swimordie said,
Quote:I will say that if my dad had said to me what you’ve been thinking about saying, it would have saved me years of low-self worth and emotional brokenness.
I hadn’t thought of that. I do need to be careful the material I may be studying isn’t beyond their maturity level, but perhaps they can benefit from what you said, Ray, that if they see me struggle, I too am human just like them, but more important than me having weaknesses, is that I am sincerely seeking answers and not standing still when faced with them. They need to learn that for them in their lives. That is the only way they will find satisfaction and avoid the self-conscious feelings one self-inflicts when sometimes being in a church that preaches “Be ye perfect”
I will make it a matter of meditation and prayer, and continue to live by Tom’s advice to move slowly, think slowly, and not force it. I welcome anyone else’s advice on how to approach the teenagers about it. Are there any teenage appropriate StayLDS.com sites where they can see other teenagers may have similar issues more in line with their feelings (social network, standards, answers to prayers, etc) than the deep doctrinal issues I seem to be engaged in?
I’m sorry your having a hard time. I actually can relate to the obsession part. I ebb and flow and right now need to cool it with the Internet. It’s hard to find that balance. Please do not believe you are doing anything wrong by questioning! Please! Life is a journey. We will (hopefully) evolve and grow our entire lives. Don’t be afraid to be where you are right now. If you are trying to grown closer to Heavenly Father you are on the right path!
Kids do complicate things because we think we have to have all the answers for them. It’s hard to shift that way of thinking. Really hard. Maybe our real job is to keep them safe, fed and teach them how to search for their own answers.
I haven’t really figured it out. My oldest is going to be 12 in September-he’ll be a deacon. I’m just going slow and trying to go with the flow of change.
It seems people go through ups and downs of faith/doubt. They also go through periods of intense absorption of material and questioning. Especially in the beginning of my faith deconstruction, I was reading a ton on the internet in addition to books. I reached out to contact people, and find advice from others who were a little farther down the path that I seemed to be traveling. If you are spending too much time on sites, try to make that judgment call and chill out a bit. None of this stuff is going anywhere. It will all still be there whenever you come back for more.
I agree with Ray about being “real” with your teenagers. I have older teenage children too. My 17 year old son and I had an awesome talk in the car the other day about the history of the Word of Wisdom. I shared some of my different beliefs and views about it. I think he really appreciated it to tell the truth. He shared with me how upset it made him to see kids at Church slamming high-powered energy drinks on the way to youth temple trips, and then to hear how wicked it was to drink coffee. He brought it up with a bishop at one point apparently, and that had not helped. It just didn’t seem logical to him, and was causing real cognitive dissonance for him. The nice thing was that I could still share my enthusiasm with him about the Gospel and the Church, and about how we all search for ways to interpret our religion and spirituality so it “makes sense” to us. I think it ended up being a positive spiritual experience and a good bonding moment between us. It also reinforced the long-standing position DW and I try to cultivate as being open to talk about things with the kids, that we won’t freak out about topics.
So I would say don’t share the whole dump truck of doubt. That isn’t good for anyone. It isn’t constructive. You can share some. Let the spirit guide you. It helps others tremendously, especially our dear children, to see other people process and handle doubts in a positive and mature way. We all go through this stuff. It is so much better to be able to talk about it with people and get the wisdom of others.
heber13, It’s admirable that you are aware of the effects that your own struggle has on those around you. I do think that it’s just part of the deal though.
Paul said to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. (or something close to that)
Proving all things may last for thousand of years. As long as we’re striving to do that, we’ll be OK.
The only 2 cent piece of advice I would offer is to be careful about trying to resolve doubts. I got hung up in that for awhile. I did better when I just strived to seek fearlessly for the truth. The doubts took care of themselves.
Of course that was just me…
My opinion only…
Mileage may vary.
Heber13, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am a proponent of informing your children in a maturity appropriate manner as Ray and swimordie have indicated. For me, I am in swimordie’s camp in that if someone had informed me about their doubts in my teenage years, I probably would have a much better balance now, and may not have had to go through such a painful deconstruction. I’d like to think about your situation further and maybe send you a PM tomorrow.
Heber’s daughter said, Quote:“I HATE going to church and I feel bad every time I go. I’d rather stay home and read general conference talks or have FHE with you. I just hate church and people there are so fake and judgemental.”
I feel the same way often about church, and I do read books/conference talks, etc during the meetings. Currently, I get way more out of my personal study than the Sunday School classes. That isn’t always the case–in some wards I have really enjoyed the teachers and their preparation, but currently, I just sit in the hall and read what I want. As long as your daughter understands the purpose of sacrament meeting, and the need for the sacrament, I think it would be fine for her to sit in the hall and read a conference talk during some of the other meetings. She’s doing something constructive, and will probably give her more benefit than being forced into a Sunday School class with people she doesn’t like.
To build on what MH said, over the years, I have seen more than one youth attend Gospel Doctrine with a parent – specifically because of issues of one sort or another regarding Sunday School. I think the obvious ideal organizationally is to have all attend their “proper” class – but I think the obvious ideal is to have all members attend the class that makes the best person they can be. Because of the organizational implications (the potential anarchy and chaos), the general ideal must be presented as the expected norm – but I support reasonable exceptions every time (much like geographical exceptions for ward attendance – limited, but possible). Good thoughts, everyone. Thanks for the support. I don’t know why I wish my kids would be older before they go through the different phases of faith…I guess I just want them to not be too confused at a young age they make drastic decisions, but you’ve given me much to think about. 1) Today’s day and age, kids are smarter and exposed to more than I was growing up. So perhaps this is just another sign of how the world has changed for our kids. In that case, I feel I should share my feelings with them and arm them so they can ask me questions instead of getting info from another source.
2) It might be better for them so they can avoid the big surprises later on. Let them build a stronger faith based on real solid facts and doctrine, which can even help them be more deeply committed.
3) Avoid the guilt or self-consciousness of having a hard time feeling good at church when they know they should be going.
I like the idea of giving them some freedom to go to other classes if they feel that helps.
Thanks for all the ideas. I’ll keep you posted.
Heber13, you might want to read the description I wrote of my upbringing and early conclusions: “The Bright Night of My Soul” (
http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/22/the-bright-night-of-my-soul/
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