- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I just listened to an MP3 podcast called http://maidensmission.zionvision.com/studying-joseph-smith/ 😡 Have any of you hear ever listened to the podcast of heard of the organization mentioned above in the link?Nope – and, honestly, I have no desire to listen or do any research on them. I’m not into intentionally causing myself or anyone else heartburn, frustration, and/or anger.
Is there an episode number to the podcast you listened to? I may want to check it out. I think sometimes I do like to listen to what people have to say and hear their take. It sounds like from what you said it would annoy me, but I might check it out and see, if I have time.
Quote:Well, honesty, I believe it’s the work of the Adversary to put Joseph Smith and the other prophets on such high pedestals so that can’t be trusted when they mess up
I 100% agree with you on this. Although I really don’t believe in an adversary literally, I do believe the concept of the adversary is to keep our thoughts and growth by distracting us on things. People go down a path, like the Pharisees and Saducees, thinking they are being more faithful, but they are actually needing course correction because they have missed some key points.
While I would try to find common ground, like perhaps we should not make Joseph Smith inconsequential with things he taught, I think I would take issue to a group on a mission to suggest all we need to know is what Joseph taught, and ignore alternate views from faithful people like the Bushmans.
From their website:
Quote:In 1829, the Lord revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith that all of His commands, teachings and divine communication comes to His people in this dispensation through Joseph Smith.
Quote:“. . . this generation shall have my word through you;” (D&C 5:10)
Have we realized the full implications of this statement? Have we followed the Lord’s counsel to receive the words of Joseph Smith “as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.” (D&C 21:5)
If you, like me, have come to the realization that you have not studied the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith with the diligence you ought, join me in a determination to become more familiar with his life and teachings!
They go on to provide links to a book “Essential of Church History” it seems to be recommended readings. That is a 1922 book written by Joseph Fielding Smith.
So…perhaps the initial feeling I’m getting from this group and the website is that people are being too liberal these days, and all the stuff about Joseph Smith in recent books or by intellectuals, are hurting our study and understanding of teachings by the prophet.
I would disagree with that premise. I would be interested to hear if they have anything intelligent to say about it…or if they are just shallow and want to attack people like Bushman instead of attack any flawed arguments or things.
I don’t know if they are worth my time, but I enjoy engaging the discussion or viewpoints to see what I can glean, and if I can join the discussion, would try to have a cordial exchange about any views I disagree with.
Joseph doesn’t have to be a demigod to be the prophet of this generation. Clearly we have received more word from God than by Joseph, and clearly we need to understand fully what Joseph said and didn’t say. We have a lot more material available to us today then we did back in times like 1922. JS Papers project should help us.
Perhaps that would be my response to an overly zealous group on Joseph…I would simply agree with them we should know Joseph’s teachings, and know them well…so..let’s study and know them (good, bad, and ugly). Conclusions about if he is a demigod or a mere mortal like us logically follow from a study of his words. And not everyone will want to follow Bushman’s approach.
I like these groups using the internet and podcasts. I like having more discussions. The Internet blogs and forums need balance…or they lose some validity if they are only from unorthodox viewpoints. I study orthodox and unorthodox and sometimes anti- materials, so I can decide for myself what I believe.
Never heard of the organization. I don’t have much desire to learn about them either as I feel I know about similar attitudes — we get them every week at churhc. I belonged to a discussion forum at one time that was full of orthodox members and it was absolutely maddening and damaging to my attempts to stayLDS. Eventually, some of the moderators left because they too were disgusted with the harsh way the ortho mods treated people with even mild unorthodox ideas. And then indicated they weren’t proud of their own behavior there.
But, I do agree with the opening comment — that it’s bad to raise up prophets as invincible, infallible, etcetera. As it creates huge expectations that mortal men cannot meet consistently. I love the writings of Armond Mauss who said that very thing in his recent book about his tattered passport crossing borders between academia, orthodox church circles, and other situations. I was actually quite satisfied that I had reached the same conclusion years previously when I saw glaring weaknesses in the top leadership and right down to the local level.
So, the humanizing effect of Rough Stone Rolling is, in my view, a good thing. It prevents people from suffering from leadership disappointment.
If it was posted at A Thoughtful Faith, it was probably NOT “liking” it. Sometimes ATFers repost things that their Facebook friends and relatives have posted and ask for suggestions for how to respond respectfully (sometimes not-so-respectfully) to them. I don’t go looking for anything that fawns over Joseph Smith because I’ve had my fill of that.
Carol Lynn Pearson recently wrote in “The Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” – a book that calls for the church to disavow polygamy:
Quote:I count myself as a friend to Brother Joseph …. I hold the fullness of his life in the palm of my hand, chaff and grain together. I keep the many kernels worth keeping, and with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.
I love that. It’s the breath of kindness, but nevertheless, it does the job.
Disclaimer, I didn’t listen to the podcast (sorry) but I’m kind of like SD, I already hear similar things on the regular. IMO this is why some people believe Mormons are not Christian, sometimes we venture into the territory of worshiping JS. Ilovechrist77 wrote:…they didn’t like Bushman comparing Joseph Smith to a regular person, just like the rest of us…
I think that’s sad because once we allow all the flaws to be incorporated back into the narrative I believe one of the most beautiful aspects of the story of the restoration becomes god can and will speak to regular people. If we consider Joseph as being otherworldly or more special I feel that in some way we potentially deny ourselves of our access to god. I’d rather the message be, “god is accessible,” not, “god is accessible… if you are special.”
All that said, some people need that level of indirection, it’s what works for them. For example: people look to Christ to give them access to god. People look to Joseph to give them access to Christ who in turn gives them access to god. Perhaps it comes down to whatever we believe to be more approachable or tangible. Christ is more tangible than god, Joseph is more tangible than Christ, TSM is more tangible than Joseph… but the link back to god is still there for people. Having a living link back to deity may be exactly the thing some require to have faith.
That is profound, Nibbler. Thank you. Nibbler wrote Quote:
All that said, some people need that level of indirection, it’s what works for them. For example: people look to Christ to give them access to god. People look to Joseph to give them access to Christ who in turn gives them access to god. Perhaps it comes down to whatever we believe to be more approachable or tangible. Christ is more tangible than god, Joseph is more tangible than Christ, TSM is more tangible than Joseph… but the link back to god is still there for people. Having a living link back to deity may be exactly the thing some require to have faith.Wow – Beautiful.
As I’ve said elsewhere, the LDS Church isn’t a cult, but there are plenty of Mormons in a cult they’ve created for themselves that’s loosely based on the Church. Usually the same ones who will sit there eating a chocolate bar and complaining that there’s a cooler full of Coke at a Church event “because caffeine is against the WoW.”
Quote:All that said, some people need that level of indirection, it’s what works for them. For example: people look to Christ to give them access to god. People look to Joseph to give them access to Christ who in turn gives them access to god. Perhaps it comes down to whatever we believe to be more approachable or tangible. Christ is more tangible than god, Joseph is more tangible than Christ, TSM is more tangible than Joseph… but the link back to god is still there for people. Having a living link back to deity may be exactly the thing some require to have faith
Nibbler, that was beautiful. That is true. Everyone needs a different approach depending on their dispositions and such.
Heber, sorry about that. Here is the link with the MP3 podcast:
http://www.josephsmithacademy.org/inspira/audio/guardians-of-an-altar-defending-the-prophet-joseph-january-1-2016/ Some bug the crap out of me too… but in all honesty…I try to keep balanced and try to focus on the good stuff as a way to stay. Nibbler…”well done, pig. Well done.”
They make some good points with there podcasts, but they’re too ultra-conversative in their beliefs. Much more than friends and family I have that are more conservative than me.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.