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Wonderingcurrent, please come back when you’re ready. I get alot our of your postings. God Bless,
Mike from Milton.
Good luck. I think we’re all concerned about your happiness and emotional health. I hope you can come to terms with your feelings in a way that will get you through the next little while. You have the rest of your life to fully get things worked out, so I wouldn’t worry that you can’t make everything work right here, right now. Take a deep breath (or two) … it’ll all be okay. Hang in there! Weddings are so stressful. Take care of your relationship first. We’ll all be rooting for you, for you both! It’s probably better to take a break for while. Please try to put all the junk on the shelf for a couple weeks and just enjoy this wonderful event in your life. Weddings are a ton of stress. You have your whole life afterwards to sort out your feelings. Enjoy the moment now though. We’ll still be here when or if you want to come back and talk about it all.
And one other thing, you don’t have to stop praying for change. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just don’t let you happiness and peace be totally attached to and depend on it. There’s an amazing lessen in strength built into learning how to separate our desires for a good life, and our attachments and dependence on specific outcomes in our own limited time frames.
Okay I only came back because I want to report how it went today. I am going to be using this site intermittently with explaining my feelings on FMH. I find right now the Lord understand. I have a terrible headache. I was focused on the entire ceremony, I think I strained my poor head. I am trying to relax, truly. I know there is a time for everything. Right now, I think this is the time where I just freak out, and that is okay.
The Temple was mixed. As I knew it would be. My heart feels something. It does. Exactly what that feeling is, I can’t explain. The spirit yes, in a way. Peace, surely. My brain is currently done wondering, cause I have a headache as I said, so… I will just explain a thought I had in the Temple.
I read the scriptures, some chapter in the New testament don’t remember which one, and the Last verse said “The first shall be last, the last shall be first” I was just thinking of how it pertained to the ceremony, on the surface of what I saw, and The First being Eve took the fruit and now she is treated as the last, the Last being Adam is treated as the first. It also had another layer of significance for me. That “Eve” being last on this earth for so long, this being the dispensation of the fullness of times, that “Eve” will begin to have her knowledge filled in and I don’t know how to say the rest of my thoughts on that, but I will try. That Since Adam was the first to get his knowledge of the priesthood….Eve will then be last to get her knowledge of her power. And in the Heaven, I just feel that there is Something, and I’m not going to tear my brain apart trying to figure out what, but there is something that is important, to the celestial kin-dom that Eve must lead and do. (And something in me says, its not the womb). Its just a feeling I have. I will leave it at that.
Thank you. That is a realy interesting impression. I am glad you have decided to give your brain a rest for a while. I really do think that sounds like a good path for you right now.
Okay so I realized I’m not done. I’m not done with the Temple experience. I have to go and do about two more things I think are completely unnecessary. That is the whole mini viel experience with my Fiance, and then hearing the first part where both “Take and Receive” and then the second part in which the Man first promises to takes the woman (before she even has a chance to speak), and the woman then only after he has promised to take her unto himself, says that she gives herself unto him. I feel like I entered the 1800’s with that phrase. Yeah I still have some confusion. I still worry in the back of my mind. I woke up twice, with worry about the whole thing after my Temple Endowment (That would be early the next morning, and then early the next morning after that) then I got tired and put it to rest, now everything swells up inside. I wonder what will happen after the less sexist temple sealing, in which I give my whole heart and soul to the line where they pronounce us married for time and all eternity as husband and wife (not to mention the fact that is the time where we will hear our new hyphenated name, a symbol for both of us of our equality). I truly just am looking forward to that line, and nothing else. That line doesn’t make it all better, but that line, sure gives me peace.
I am not surprised though, that its this way. Blame our language, It is largely patriarchal, it is through our language that we comprehend things, so since our language is not pure, our understanding is not pure. But alas it ins’t required in the scriptures that our understanding be pure, its required that our hearts be pure. Maybe all the Temple is teaching us, is Patriarchy is a result of the fall, since we are in this fallen world, most of us must live by patriarchy (the few cultures who do not, I do envy in a way) but there is hope, there is. I was reading an evangelical site God’s word to Women. This is one of the sites that actually got me on this path, because I say if Evangelicals can understand this, if they can do the leg work, and figure out both intellectually and then get that confirmed (by which I whole heartedly think they have), by the power of the Holy Ghost. Then so can I, so can anybody. I keep thinking “Seek after virtuous things”, what is more virtuous then something that can be liberating? Anyway before I digress. I was reading the God’s word to women blog. And then I came across Ann Nylands work on Paul, I came again across something I’ve read previously about how submitting was equal. I just feel that there is something there, it gives me peace. I think the hope that I am getting at, is that we are not alone as Mormon’s questioning all of this. The evangelicals who only have the bible to contend with are questioning it, they are working with it the best they can. I guess I can take inspiration from their struggle, and that will help me continue with my struggle.
I have 15 more days before I get married, 15 more days. I know one thing, I don’t want a headache, so this is why I write this. As a release, of pent up pressure. And to say I think I am formulating a path in which to deal with this, and Stay LDS, Feminist Mormon Housewives, LDS WAVE, and others will be a helpful resource to me. I need an outlet, I need a way to deal with this on some productive level. Even if right now the productivity is just working on not letting this dwell with in me, but be released.
So that is what this feminist has logged on to say. I am sure after the sealing I will just look at my husband, and know he is mine. I guess I just need to pass through this one thing. I can’t say everything will be fine, but at least once I’ve done it, I’ve done it.
I feel the temple is only for here. Only for this life. I can’t see Temples in the Celestial Kin-dom, I can’t see the church organized there as it is here (in fact I can barely envision a church in the celestial kin-dom. Churches are for sinners.) I believe the covenants we make for the most part are equal. I just have to maybe learn not to listen to my head so much, and follow my heart.
wc – thanks so much for checking back in. It’s good to hear from you. On the sealing itself, it’s been over a decade since I’ve done one. It’s neither more nor less sexist than the endowment really, so you’ve been through the worst of it. And yes, it is like a visit to a Victorian Village. Quaint and outdated notions mixed with gingerbready interior design. But there is personal meaning that can be had, and I do feel the spirit in the temple, FWIW. Yes, thanks for checking back in. The thought that struck me as I read your latest comment is quite simple – and it’s not related directly to what you said, but does relate to the overall issue, I think. (That’s pretty typical of me, actually – that my mind grabs onto related tangents. It gives some people whiplash, but it works for me.
😳 So, with that disclaimer:
Don’t forget that it’s only because we teach of the existence of a Heavenly Mother (of a literal divine feminine) that many of these issues are so potent. Yes, there still is sexism within the LDS Church, and, yes, in some ways it’s odd that we struggle to define and implement true gender equality as much as we do given our theology – BUT . . . We do have the theological foundation to receive on-going revelation about this issue and accept change that draws us nearer and nearer to a “more perfect” (more complete, more whole, more fully developed) understanding and implementation.It’s slow, and for the young, especially, it appears to be snail-paced – but I have the luxury of looking back on almost a half-century in the Church – and I see much more change (and careful attempts by the top leadership to affect even more change) than many others do. Yes, there’s much more that I want to see happen, but try to realize the cognitive dissonance you are feeling is caused partly by the theological foundation the LDS Church gave you – and try to be grateful for that conflict, as hard as that is to understand. At least we have a theological foundation that gives us a target that makes sense, and that’s important, imo. Okay, so I just hit the back button, and forgot a large portion of what I was writing before so I will just recap: Temple Initiatories: I felt peace here, good here, and a little bit blown away here, but how simple, how wonderful it was to hear Sisters give me blessings. I felt even more wonderful when they placed their hands upon my head. I felt it was so right, so true. I felt I this sacred moment, should be expanded more. Women have the power to give blessings, they should where ever they can.
As you said Ray, the cognitive dissonance I am feeling is largely because of our theology. As for heavenly mother, sometimes I truly think, maybe they can’t give it to us. Maybe we as women must ask and give knowledge of our heavenly mother. But I go on with the thought that maybe also there must be something that comes from the male priesthood, I wouldn’t say first, but I would say simultaneously with women declaring about Heavenly Mother. But I do not know when that will happen, only that it should happen, and only that it will probably happen at some point I’m alive (Me I’m hoping sooner rather then later.)
Temple Endowment: I felt good at the equal covenants. I felt at peace there. I only felt odd at the times I felt something was unnecessary. I know though realize why the Church encourages the Young Men to go on missions, and the Young Women to marry. So it can be that the Young Man accompanies her through her endowment (himself already being endowed) and takes her through the viel. My fiance is not a returned missionary, so this conflicts me. I have already supposedly given my name, to my Lord Jesus Christ. Now I have to go through it again, just so he can have my name? Sounds a bit absurd to me. In the context of the Endowment it makes sense in a way. But i find it unnecessary. And the veiling, I found I felt, nothing. Nothing at all when I wore it. I felt it meant nothing. And would continue to mean nothing to me. It was an odd feeling to get sitting there. I thought I would get an answer one way or another, but no. I got this distinct thought “This means nothing, but only something to those who want it to”. So for me it doesn’t mean I’m oppressed (though I don’t really get a choice to wear it or not to wear it), but it also doesn’t mean the numerous things I’ve heard it mean. With that note. I got a book called “The Viel: Women writers on its history, lore and politics”. And I’m interested to read it. Just to put more knowledge about the viel from women’s perspective.
Temple Sealing: I am looking forward to being pronounced sealed for time and all eternity, and hearing our hyphenated name as I said. I just hope I don’t come out of that with the headache I did after the Endowment session. I guess I can just hang on to that line, that one line that seems to give me so much peace and happiness. I get a really strong impression that is the line that matters to our father in heaven and mother in heaven anyway.
Hawkgrrl- It does sound victorian to me. I do believe the worst is over. I just am going to bear this one last thing I have to do. And then every other time I go, it will be for somebody else who can reject it or accept it as they see fit.
I feel very strongly however that the Lord has called me to live a slightly different path then the sisters in the Church who are all fine with the man leading, and presiding. I feel strongly about this. I feel called to figure out a path of equality, and in my tool chest, I am armed with how to get that done. So maybe the Lord is just preparing me, for what I feel ready to do, even if at the moment, I am ultra confused.
wonderingcurrent wrote:I feel very strongly however that the Lord has called me to live a slightly different path then the sisters in the Church who are all fine with the man leading, and presiding. I feel strongly about this. I feel called to figure out a path of equality, and in my tool chest, I am armed with how to get that done. So maybe the Lord is just preparing me, for what I feel ready to do, even if at the moment, I am ultra confused.
Change happens when enough people ask the Lord for it, when there’s enough passion about it to call down the answers from above, and show we are ready to make the change happen. This is true all throughout Gospel history.
As someone who has been bothered by the same things as you can I give one little bit of advice: You are really worrying too much about something you have not yet experienced. Do your endowment, get married and then revisit your thoughts and feelings. You may be worrying about things you don’t need to worry about. I’m thinking that since you are armed with so much knowledge and perhaps had you not had all of this foreknowledge it may not have bothered you as much. You will in no way be blindsided that is no doubt!
Of course, the women veiling their faces is going to be obvious and I feel it is very 1800sish and will eventually be taken out. The hearken part is also lame (for lack of a better term) and one that my husband and I have never spoken about, he wouldn’t even dare say the word “hearken” to me. It’s just a non-starter. I’ll follow God just as he does. Finding that it is a product of the 1950s just confirms what I’ve always felt.
Go looking for the equaling parts of the ceremony. We all are given the same signs and tokens. We are are given the same blessings at the veil. The women actively use and participate in priesthood ordinances THESE ARE REALLY COOL THINGS that we as women get to experience in the Temple. The temple is much more equal than any other church ceremony, meeting, ordinance, etc. To me the temple is much more of an equalizer than anything else we do in church.
Good luck on your feminist journey. Times will change, it will just come much more slowly than you’d like. The older generations with the power and influence die off slowly!
😆 :silent: But we love’em anyway.having gone through the temple, endowment, sealing, everything, I have to say. I can see where it is equal. Not that I necessarily agree with how the endowment is done. I feel that God wants something a bit more simple, and simple can be just as symbolic. Just my feelings. The sealing part well, that was interesting, I felt it was was much equal then I thought it would be. The wording was still a bit, eye rolling on one part, but I felt the Spirit more strongly, more resolutely and more powerfully in the sealing then in the endowment. That sends a message to me that the sealing is more closer, and much more accurate with what God wants. And the eye rolling part that I did, sometimes I think my Father in Heaven joins in with me. As for worrying about what I have not experienced. I will do that, all the time. I won’t shy away that I do that, and I necessarily won’t try to not do that any more. Worrying about it, makes me think about it, before I do it. It made me aware of it so that I didn’t really miss anything. Now I can’t remember all of it, but I do know of it better then probably most young women who go through it their first time, endowment and sealing on the same day. Hindsight helps though, and in Hindsight, I am not grateful for the struggle, heck no, I don’t want to go through that again. But I am grateful for the lessons learned, and that I can see now, that my worrying can be used as a tool to help me understand it, my confusion also. And I am still trying to understand it.
:wave: Thanks for the update. I really like the sealing ceremony, as well. So glad to hear you went through with it and that it went well. Good luck on journey from here!
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