- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I can’t remember a time of my life where I didn’t love video games. I consider myself a gamer. I want to be a professional game developer. I feel that Heavenly Father is supportive of that dream. Unfortunately, I find that there is a stigma against video games and a lot of it comes from the church. (A lot of it also comes from the software industry. Even though game programmers are largely some of the most talented and intelligent programmers, a lot of software companies refuse to hire them. This is a different problem, but I still felt it was worth mentioning to point out not all of the stigma comes from church.)
I remember a time on my mission where I was talking with one of the members about wanting to be a game developer and he pretty much immediately dismissed the idea and suggested “more productive” alternatives. I remember people about my age giving up video games for some reason or another, usually some bogus spiritual reason. I can think of a few GC talks that sort of hint that video games are bad (or at least ones that people cite out of context to suggest it). I never really felt much support from my family until somewhat recently. It seemed they thought I would “grow out of it.”
I don’t really know how much of this is objective and how much is just my perception, but it’s something I have difficulty moving past. Thoughts?
Like most things, there is truth and wisdom on both sides. There is nothing inherently wrong with gaming, in and of itself. It all hinges on how much time someone spends gaming and the specific nature of the games in which they engage (the content itself).
There are multiple negatives, however:
It can be truly addictive, and too many people spend way too much time gaming.
Sometimes, the content actually is damaging.
It can interfere with some people’s view of reality, particularly for people with certain personality types and disabilities.
It can isolate those who play too often and too long from real-world, face-to-face interaction – and that can cause social interaction issues that make missionary work, for example, even more difficult than it already is naturally.
In some cases, it can become expensive – especially for people who engage in cosplay.
Like other things that can be addictive (elements of the Word of Wisdom, for example) and “unrealistic” (porn is an example of this), the key is control and the impact on one’s overall life:
Does someone control gaming (in all ways), or does gaming control them (in any way)?
The issue is that most addicts underestimate their addiction level, so they have a hard time accurately making that primary evaluation – and the other evaluations that must be made once the bigger picture is understood.
I think most of the discussion from church leaders as it relates to gaming focuses on two aspects: 1) Time consumption. It’s not just time spent gaming. Time spent gaming is often mentioned in the same breath as time spent on social media and watching TV. I don’t think I ever heard a leader talk about spending too much time reading books but I know many people that can spend an entire day reading, yet we don’t wag fingers in their direction. Just sayin’.
2) Inappropriateness. Not just inappropriateness in gaming. Inappropriateness in gaming is often mentioned in the same breath as inappropriateness in music, movies, and hey, they even throw in books this time (romance novels).
I don’t think it’s the gaming itself but gaming as it pertains to the standard entertainment and media counsel.
I think the stigma came from a wider culture than the church. I get the impression that when video games were first coming on the scene most adults believed that the kids would grow out of it… and now there are people in their 40s and 50s that still play games as a form of entertainment (except Ray
My own opinion. People back in the day smacked a hoop with a stick, went to a circus, played pinochle or bridge, went to the picture shows, tossed a dude in an arena with a hungry lion, etc. We just added one more thing to the list. No need to pop a gasket.
– – –
Switching gears. You’re talking about pursuing a career in game development. That’s pursuit of a career which is very different than pursuit of 24/7 entertainment.
nibbler’s last statement is important to acknowledge. I just want to share that my son has a severe gaming addiction. We can’t get him off the darn computer. I tried putting limits on the time of day he can spend on the computer, but it puts us in eternal conflict. Once we took the computer away and as a 13 year old he threw a tantrum. I was amazed that I was seeing toddler like behavior in a teenager, as in all other respects, he behaved like a typical teen. Taken with the fact we are always in conflict with him about his disability, the relationship is at stake if we keep at him about it. I hear that such an addiction can affect future relationships (no time spent with important people), employment (can’t hold down a job) etcetera.
I’m concerned and don’t know what to do. This post echos my concerns from GA’s though. I don’t see anything wrong with games in a limited way — it’s no different than a chess absorption I had years ago, but being at the same activity 12 hours a day 7 days a week is not healthy.
Most anti video game comments I’ve heard have to do with it being a waste of time if not played in moderation. Let me share a few anecdotes. 1. In a meeting with local mission presidents, stake presidents, and bishops – and a Q12 – I heard a mission president say at the pulpit he’d rather have a mission full of masturbating missionaries than a mission full of gamers. He then said gamers generally don’t interact well with people. This may be a generalization but there’s also truth to it.
2. I heard this second hand from a close family friend and I’m pretty sure it’s true. A few years ago a Q12 made a comment during general conference about the dangers of getting. The impetus behind this anti-gaming comment was that this particular Q12 had a teenage grandson who played too much. In fact he played so much that one day he was too busy playing that he decided to pee himself instead of getting up to use the restroom.
3. Video games developers are extremely bright and can be wildly successful. I took two graduate level classes that were about 30% game coders and they taught the rest of us many worthwhile lessons as fellow students. These classes were organizational behavior classes, not technical classes, and these game coders understood human nature very well.
4. In college I found myself spending too much time playing games. My grades suffered and my relationship with my brand new wife suffered. One time during our weekly date night I asked if I could play instead of going on a date. I played the new release of Starcraft while my wife sit next too me on watching. She wanted to show me support and love for a hobby that was obviously important to me. At 3am I looked up and found her asleep still next to me. The hours had disappeared and I hadn’t noticed my wife at all. I remember feeling terribly guilty for ignoring her. I had chosen a video game instead of a date night and sex with my beautiful wife and it occurred to me how stupid I had been. Since then I’ve probably played 2 or 3 hours of video games. That was about 15 years ago.
My boys game and I have nothing against video games. However they can be addicting like many good things in life like sex, food, and even exercise.
I agree that moderation is key. Myself, I tend to play a game pretty avidly until I beat/conquer that game. Then I can have a fairly long period of not playing until I pick up another game. I have found this to be a problem with some of the app based games because there is no defined end… it can go on and on. I do have difficulty being able to put the game down.
Tying this back to the church, I am sure that there are actual members that appear to be addicted to video games to the point that their level of life fulfillment (activities, relationships, employment) suffers. Church leadership is naturally warning us against those sorts of dangers.
Beefster, I hope you are able to get into the VG industry and that it provides a solid career for you. I expect that it is both highly challenging and highly rewarding. There have been a number of areas where VG software has led the way in highly technical solutions to complex real-world problems, just like how the effort of going into space has produced science and technology that have benefited the earth-bound. I do think it’s useful to avoid crossing the streams when it comes to where the stigma arises. As has been mentioned already, time is a big factor. From my standpoint, I don’t see the content as a big issue, though it certainly is for younger audiences, in the same way that porn or alcohol would be. But time is a big deal. I own a console myself along with half-dozen games. In the nearly two years I have owned the console, I’ve completed one game on it. I am simply too busy. So, when a person who has very limited (if any) leisure time sees someone else with seemingly limitless time to pursue seemingly endless entertainment, it is going to raise eyebrows. In the case of VG, I think we all know plenty of first-hand cases of young men who basically are only good at one thing, well, two, if you count CoD and Madden as two different talents.
Here’s a way to help illustrate how causation may be only indirectly related to video gaming itself:
Beefster wrote:A lot of it also comes from the software industry. Even though game programmers are largely some of the most talented and intelligent programmers, a lot of software companies refuse to hire them.
I have interviewed and hired software engineers for more than two decades. If, in the course of an interview, the candidate says that they want to be a game developer, I would mentally close the file on that candidate wrap up the interview politely and move on to the next candidate. The reason, though, is probably different than you assume. I have no interest in hiring someone who is trying to break into a different segment of the industry. I want people who want to do what we are doing.Quite recently, probably five months ago, I was interviewing a candidate who said that the only reason they took the job with their previous employer was because they had good tuition reimbursement. Degree attained, the guy was now ready to leave that company. I didn’t hire him. Most people who hire software engineers, do so with at least the hope that their company will mean more to the candidate than just a stepping stone.
ALL media advancements, when they first arrive, are filled with Anti-sentiments. Socrates wrote:[The written word]will create forgetfulness in the learners’ souls.
Conrad Gessner warned that the printing press would lead to a
Quote:…confusing and harmful abundance of books!
The medical journal “Sanitarian” stated
Quote:[Education] exhausts the children’s brains and nervous systems with complex and multiple studies, and ruin their bodies by protracted imprisonment.
The music magazine Gramophone said of the radio
Quote:[Children have] developed the habit of dividing attention between the humdrum preparation of their school assignments and the compelling excitement of the loudspeaker.
Whenever new technology comes out, people mis-understand it, are afraid of it, and condemn it as “unnatrual”. Old people are always going to view new technology as dangerous; it doesn’t matter the religion. Video games are still very new in their infancy. There’s a lot of kinks in the system to work out, which have led to all sorts of problems from “video-game compulsion” to “cyber-bullying” to players placing themselves in dangerous situations (game associated car-wrecks, kidnappings, etc).
But I also think video games are an exciting and wonderful way to tell stories, to teach, and to convey wonderful messages. They have an advantage over every medium, in allowing the viewer to participate and make decisions. I, for one, was able to perservere through depression through “Dark Souls”. I first felt like I was truly understood, while playing “The Beginners Guide”.I was able to find greater peace in my life through “Stardew Valley”. I had a complete shift in my worldview while playing “Pathologic”. Games are incredible tools. The world NEEDS good game developers.
Well I appreciate the effort and thought put into this. I’ve seen a few new angles of insight. Plus a lot of the same things I already agree with- use moderation, be careful not to turn it into an addiction, etc… This forum seems to have a pretty diverse age range (I guess I’m used to forums of people a little closer to my age) and with it a diverse set of opinions on the matter. However, I don’t feel I have accomplished what I set out to do when I posted this initially. Perhaps this isn’t exactly the right avenue for me to feel more confident in pursuing my goals- maybe I need to recognize that it’s more an age thing than a church thing. Maybe a psychological counselor would be better since it’s more that I lack confidence that my goals are worthy and good and I feel that everywhere I turn, someone is trying to talk me out of making games. It certainly doesn’t help that my depression/bipolar/whatever seems to conspire against me in staying motivated.
Good discussion though.
You need to pursue what you feel passionately. If that is game development, great. There is nothing wrong with that as a career path, as long as you are realistic about your abilities and desires. Just pursue it with your eyes wide open to the full picture, as well as you can see it. You are correct, however, that this is primarily a site for religious discussion – and that the age range here is wide. From the youngest participant to the oldest, the span probably is about 50 years – and the average probably is near the middle of that span or a bit lower.
Beefster wrote:
Good discussion though.
Yes, I am regularly amazed and the varied opinions and perspectives that are presented in a respectful manner here. (BTW I am a 40 year old professional in the field of hotel administration)
Beefster wrote Quote:Maybe a psychological counselor would be better since it’s more that I lack confidence that my goals are worthy and good and I feel that everywhere I turn, someone is trying to talk me out of making games.
I write for hobby/profession. By all accounts it’s a noble pursuit. Just yesterday an article geared to writers about not letting age discourage you from what you want to pursue.
http://www.livewritethrive.com/2017/08/03/dont-let-your-age-be-a-reason-to-not-write/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.livewritethrive.com/2017/08/03/dont-let-your-age-be-a-reason-to-not-write/ The opening quote reads
Quote:If you are a teenager and you are writing, then chances are someone is going to tell you stop. Might be a parent who wants you to follow a better career plan or a friend who thinks you’re just not cut out for it.
Followed by
Quote:“Writing doesn’t really pay,” they’ll tell you.
“Perhaps writing can be your hobby when you’re older.”
“Just don’t let your writing distract you from your schoolwork.”
If anyone ever comes to you with one of these phrases, then feel free to make them a character in your book and off them (the character not the person)
Read the article substitute the word writer for game designer. Every creator gets scoffed at, ridiculed, stomped on. Step up. Give it a try. Who knows you may create a something no one thought of. Or you may find out you would love to do something else.
Our ages do not limit our desires. We had a lesson on faith yesterday at church. The teacher pointed out that we often use the word faith as some cosmic, in our head, think good thoughts things. Real faith is manifest when we do something. It’s the doing that connects our hopes into potential. Stop dreaming. Get some skills. Give it a try. Don’t worry, there will be naysayers at every turn. Trust me as a Mom I have naysayed my kids college ideas – then realized they knew themselves better than I did.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.