- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I’m a late 40’s male in the Ogden area. Born and raised in the church. Went on a mission. Went to BYU. Married in the temple for over 25 years. We’re both very active in the church. Four children: oldest daughter is married in the temple, next daughter is engaged to be. Next son is a teen and planning on a mission. Youngest daughter just entered high school. Like many others who have introduced themselves on here, I’ve become less literal about church teachings and the nature of deity. I can still reconcile myself with the church, but it sometimes takes a bit of either stretching or intentional avoidance of issues. Culturally and tribally, I expect to be viewed as a TBM until I die, and I’m OK with that. It’s known that I’m more liberal than I was in my younger days, but I’m quiet so I don’t have many conflicts with those at church.
Here’s the interesting part. And I don’t know if I should refer to it as a “challenge” or an “issue” or what. Merely presenting it here may be an indication that it is an unresolved issue for me that need to be presented for your scrutiny. I’m not looking for . . . actually I don’t know that I’m looking for. Maybe just someone with fresh eyes. I’m not really distraught or in conflict. I’m actually quite content. But maybe there’s someone more intelligent than I who can express well a comment that will help me lock things into place.
[Moderator edit: deleted description of poly-amorous encounter/s. It’s not allowed in our community rules of etiquette]
It’s been a huge sexually awakening for my wife and she loves it. And I love it. And we love each other. And I feel the spirit at church. And we are just the same people we were before, but better. Of course, we may get caught, which that does worry me since we weren’t too careful with whom we messed around with at first. But all this has made me look long and hard at the church’s and all churches’ teachings on sex including abstinent priests, gay marriage, affairs, premarital sex, etc, and I now have a very worldly and rational philosophy regarding all of these which is only partially in harmony with the LDS church.
Admittedly, I may be seeking for justification of sin, and I can’t argue about possibility since I am now on the inside of this situation. If this had happened 20-30 years ago, I would be convinced that I’m going to “hell” if I don’t “repent”. But now, I just don’t feel that way. I just don’t.
First of all, I’m not asking for anyone to comment on whether this is good or evil. I think that depends largely on one’s general attitude about “keeping the commandments”. You’re welcome to state your opinion one way or another, but taking a poll isn’t what’s going to help me one way or another. I could very easily cast that question to any LDS or religious forum, and depending on the TMB or Anti flavor of the arena, I’d get votes one way or another.
My question, I think, is this. We are very content and happy with our new activities. Being told that it will lead to A, B, or C, is not a deterrent. My question is, does anyone have any thoughts on how I can Stay LDS while we continue these activities.
No. Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
Yes – socially only, including attendance at meetings and activities, if you want to go that route – just like non-member spouses or non-members might do. No – not as “regular members” – not in any way that involves official callings of any kind, and certainly not temple attendance – and not in any way that includes telling others about your activities.
Institutionally, this is black-and-white excommunication territory, imo – and, honestly, I wouldn’t argue against that result from an organizational standpoint. If I were your Bishop, I would recommend excommunication without any hesitation whatsoever – especially if you are attending the temple right now. There’s no way I can soften my feelings about this. If I was in a position of having to make a membership decision, it would be a quick, simple decision for me.
Now I am a pretty liberal minded individual, especially when compared to the run-of-the-mill TBM and I certainly take no issue with you and your wife’s activities as long as it is mutually agreed upon and you are open and honest with each other. But to answer your question in regards to staying LDS …
Socially, yes. Until you are outed by someone or by yourself. I highly doubt that the average member will be willing to accept anyone who lives the “lifestyle” into their social circles.
Formally, no. That is unless you and your wife are willing to be completely deceitful in your TR interviews, which if you sincerely wish to go to the temple I would not suggest. I may have issues with some of the policies of the church but I am with Ray, in that this is a pretty cut and dry violation of the Law of Chastity in any dispensation.
Personally, I have much greater respect for people who are honest to themselves and others and are willing to step away than those who deceive in order to project the perfect Mormon image. If you and your wife want to continue with your new found sexual behaviours, go for it. But own the consequences. If the two of you decide that activity in the church and temple attendance is important, then own your past behaviours, stop them, go through the proper repentance and own the consequences. Then together you can work your way back into good standing in the church.
I don’t mean to say that you cannot continue to have a testimony of many of the gospel truths and cannot grown and develop spiritually. I just don’t think you can do it within the structure of church.
But that is just my opinion.
I would have to agree with Ray on this one. I am curious though and please don’t answer on here but are the other couples LDS? if so, you’ll probably be found out anyway as someone will probably go to their bishop on this. I’m thinking if you’re going to continue anyway then either go the social route or go to your Bishop and confess and get the whole court thing over and done with. I definitely wouldn’t go to any temple recommend interviews or accept any callings though. No. I’m right along with everyone else. You can do what you think is right and what works for you. You guys are mature enough to understand the dangers and potential consequences along with the benefits you perceive. But this one is so far out there, I don’t see how it fits into LDS religion currently in any way, shape or form.
To be blunt, I think committed homosexual relationships have more of an argument for inclusion in Mormonism than a polyamorous, “swinger” lifestyle. There’s just no possible way that is going to fly with active members and leaders.
You could still maintain faith and belief in the Mormon religion. You could still be spiritual in your own way. I don’t personally agree that “sinning” cuts one off from the spirit or from God completely, if at all. You could still feel a social and cultural connection to Mormonism. You could do all that … but I really don’t see a way to be active in the church without lying your ass off
] MikeM wrote:I’m Culturally and tribally, I expect to be viewed as a TBM until I die…
It’s been a huge sexually awakening for my wife and she loves it. And I love it. And we love each other. And I feel the spirit at church.
Two thoughts. First, someone is going to rat you out and how you’ll be viewed by friends, family and especially kids is not as a “TBM”.
The second is you’re going to have to define what you mean by the “Spirit”. I always though it was something you felt when you were being good. Makes me even less trustful of those tingly feelings. Sorry about the judgemental stuff, but really.
I had a couple of aging patients once who were swingers. Pretty sad.
If you were ever in a position that you were called to a church court, you could short circuit the process by resigning. Thanks to a lawsuit in the 70s the LDS church puts precedence on resignations over excommunications. In other words you can say: “You can’t fire me I quit.” I don’t know if this matters much, but it at least prevents your dirty laundry from being aired in front of about 20 people – 16 or so for your court and 4 or so for your wife’s court. This forum is probably the most liberal you can possible get and still be Mormon. Even so you have gotten several comments about going through the repentance process, it being “sad”, etc. I think that is highly indicative of just how far away this is from being compatible with Mormonism.
One could argue that had Joseph Smith survived a few more years the church would have accepted polyandry and maybe even spiritual wifery since he was certainly practicing the first, and at least Bennett was practicing the 2nd. So you may be closer to the roots of Mormonism than most would want to think about.
If this isn’t a made up story, have fun. It seems to me you are in an appropriate phase of life and your relationship is mature enough that it works for you – probably pretty rare – I know it wouldn’t work for me.
I am completely with Ray on this issue. Whether you feel the spirit or not, such behavior is outside of any acceptable conduct for the Church: it is now, and always has been throughout history. Having come of age during the sexual revolution of the sixties and early seventies, I have seen a lot of alternative lifestyles. I had some very close friends who tried the open marriage route and they reaped disappointment and unhappiness by and by.
At least this is what I have seen.
So, like cwald, “no”. I don’t have thoughtful suggestions for your situation.
MikeM wrote:…My question, I think, is this. We are very content and happy with our new activities. Being told that it will lead to A, B, or C, is not a deterrent. My question is, does
anyone have any thoughts on how I can Stay LDS while we continue these activities.Personally I don’t think you should feel compelled to leave the Church because of your unusual hobby but I definitely wouldn’t tell anyone about it because I doubt very many of them would be very understanding about it. Why should it be anyone else’s business if no one is clearly being hurt or victimized by it?
Rather then proceed with comments that have already been tread upon I hope you will take time to concider one thing. This is all between consenting adult at least by you. The odds are very statistically and historically that one or more will change thier mind about it sometime in the future and her or his legal marriage partner won’t feel the same way. When this happens the pendulum swings wildly with resulting hurt feelings and destructive emotional behavior ensues usually. If this involves other LDS then that is the very job of the bishopric to protect the spiritual welfare of his floc. If it isn’t then be prepared that these actions are effecting more then just yourself and if one or more start felling guilty about it emotions and chaos will rock the group and community. Please concider this. The most basic of foundations of LDS or most any religion are murder and adultery. Take out the foundation and what is left?
I wonder why you want to stay LDS? I don’t understand that. Is it a cultural thing? Family thing? As a convert, I am struggling to understand when you are embracing a lifestyle so out there, why you would bother staying? And I hope I am not exceeding my boundaries, but I would like to ask you if you have thought long range on the effect upon your children if/when they find out. Secrets are usually not kept well at all from children.With them having been rasied in the church, I imagine if this blows up, there will be some fallout damage to them. Would this be a lifestyle you are okay with your children embracing in their adult lives? I am really interested in your thoughts on this. Sometimes converts who have come from families that have had looser moral choices struggle with their feelings towards their parents after they join the church. I hope you have weighed all this out. I’m not sure there can be productive discussion about “solutions” with regard to this that go beyond just being involved socially. I’m going to lock this thread so the admins can talk about it and decide if it’s worth continuing, given the mission of this site.
I’ve noticed the originator of the OP has not been interested in returning to participate in the discussion. It can be hard to identify trolls, but Ray is right in locking this unproductive topic.
Move along. Nothing to see here.
- The topic ‘Any Thoughtful Suggestions?’ is closed to new replies.