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“you’d never let your driver’s license or your credit card expire.” Well, the CC company sends me a new one when it’s expiring. I don’t have to haul my cookies down to the stake center in a dress on a weeknight to answer a bunch of questions every 2 years. And as for the DL, mine doesn’t expire until 2033. I already don’t look like the picture. I can only imagine how little it will look like me in 2033. I’ve never been badgered. But that could be because in my previous ward my bishop totally forgot about me and I was lost in the cracks and now we moved so my name’s in a different ward. However, I’m a University student and I don’t really attend my student ward. But…to say the least I haven’t had a valid recommend for nearly 3 whole years. No one should be forced or pressured into attending the temple. It’s simply a personal choice and it’s between you and Christ. I’ve never had an executive secretary on my case for a lapsed TR, DW always beats him to it. 
hawkgrrrl, thank you for the expression: Quote:I don’t have to haul my cookies down to the stake center…
I think I will start to use it. Unless it is a copyright infringement.Minyan Man wrote:hawkgrrrl, thank you for the expression:
Quote:I don’t have to haul my cookies down to the stake center…
I think I will start to use it. Unless it is a copyright infringement.I have always thought it unusual that I get phone calls from Exec Secs asking me to meet with a priesthood leader, and I have no idea what the meeting is about. If I ask, the Exec Sec often gives a neutral statement “he wants to get to know you better [wants to eventually get to your TR status] etcetera. As a volunteer, I have often thought I have a right to know. And it takes me 40 minutes to get to the Stake Center one way.
Hauling cookies without a reason is the plight of an employee, not a volunteer!
Roy wrote:The only reason I have shared with Bishop about my faith crisis is the stillbirth of my daughter and my shock and dismay at not receiving God’s divine protection. I believe that this is the least threatening posture that I can take because it does not point criticism or blame at the church. I went through some emotional trauma and I am still dealing with it. That is the posture that I take.
I think leaders need to hear this. That everyone doesn’t necessarily care about a list of questions that beg the big questions in our lives. We can build the temple up into something it’s not, I think.
This discussion makes me wonder about those “the bishop/SP would like to meet with you”, but I am not going to tell you at all what it is about – and you shouldn’t even ask what it is about! I have heard of some on this site having pushed for “what is the topic”. How often has anybody done that and what is the result?
I am very good friends with my bishop. He knows I had a FC and I have a huge issue with the Nov 15 policy change, but does not really know where I am at. I think I could just email or text him and say, “waz up?” and he would probably tell me. The SP? I am somewhat friends with him but our stake Exec Secretary is a brute of a guy that I don’t think would take kindly to someone pushing back.
I just re-listened to a podcast on Fowler’s stages of faith and I think being so “bold” ask to ask you have to have moved out of stage 3. If you are belligerently asking, “WHAT FOR?” you are probably still in stage 4. If you just ask calmly and want to know (even if you are a bit persistent) you are probably more into stage 5.
We’ve had discussions on the mysterious phone calls before but my imagination is failing me, I don’t know a good search term and the conversations may have been side conversations and no dedicated thread. My guess is that most of the time the executive secretary doesn’t even know what the meeting is about, they’re just the messenger for a cryptic message.
SilentDawning wrote:I have always thought it unusual that I get phone calls from Exec Secs asking me to meet with a priesthood leader, and I have no idea what the meeting is about. If I ask, the Exec Sec often gives a neutral statement “he wants to get to know you better [wants to eventually get to your TR status] etcetera. As a volunteer, I have often thought I have a right to know. And it takes me 40 minutes to get to the Stake Center one way.
I hated my calling as Exec Sec for this reason! I couldn’t tell people why when I called to make appointments.
hawkgrrrl wrote:“you’d never let your driver’s license or your credit card expire.” Well, the CC company sends me a new one when it’s expiring. I don’t have to haul my cookies down to the stake center in a dress on a weeknight to answer a bunch of questions every 2 years. And as for the DL, mine doesn’t expire until 2033. I already don’t look like the picture. I can only imagine how little it will look like me in 2033.
And the credit card company doesn’t care what kind of underwear I have on.
😈 Roy wrote:The only reason I have shared with Bishop about my faith crisis is the stillbirth of my daughter and my shock and dismay at not receiving God’s divine protection. I believe that this is the least threatening posture that I can take because it does not point criticism or blame at the church. I went through some emotional trauma and I am still dealing with it. That is the posture that I take.
How do you deal with the inevitable counter-argument that “it was a long time ago” — whenever you bring up past trauma in the church? I have heard that a few times. Part of me will not allow myself to return to full activity given the traumatic experiences I have had in the church — and even though some of them happened 30 years ago, they still affect how I feel about the church.
The average priesthood leader seems to think that if something negative happened in the church years ago, that the passage of time should wipe away any after-effect on our church commitment/faith. For me, that is not the case. However, I never seem to know what to say about it. I had a priesthood leader who indicated that I had the worse sin because I did not appear to be forgiving.
I will be honest, with SOME of the experiences, I still feel angst toward individual persons. But for other experiences, I just feel disillusioned about the LDS experience as a result of my trauma. I don’t harbor anything against the people — just like you feel when you have a bad meal at a restaurant. You don’t feel bitter toward the chef, the owner or the server, you just don’t feel interested in going to the restaurant again if the experience of being there is unpleasant.
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So, what do you say to the priesthood leader/well meaning member of the church who assumes that old trauma is no longer a valid reason for church less-activity, lessened faith?
Quote:SD wrote: “
So, what do you say to the priesthood leader/well meaning member of the church who assumes that old trauma is no longer a valid reason for church less-activity, lessened faith?”
What I wanna say — The answer is a two word short phrase that starts with F.
What I actually say, ” Never did anyone within my religious community validate my pain and suffering. The acute pain from my loss is gone .. But my relationship with the church was injured — perhaps beyond repair. I was surrounded by people who wanted me to show a “Rockstar Testimony” and I delivered. They wanted me to be the poster child of how to suffer well. I nailed it.
The organizational image was more important than allowing me to simply hurt and process that pain. People wanted me to stand up and keep going while carrying my burden because it made the church look good. Eventually, I had to process the loss and the emotions. Then I was told that it had been too long and my feelings were not appropriate or valid. All feelings have to be processed eventually. My feelings about the church were processed later and I still have feelings of betrayal.
My faith in the church is no longer whole.
Now you are asking for more faith and more activity. You are asking me to give more. Instead, how about simply caring about me and my family? Be my spiritual leader instead of my shift manager.
ap, well said. Thank you. amateurparent wrote:What I actually say, ” Never did anyone within my religious community validate my pain and suffering. The acute pain from my loss is gone .. But my relationship with the church was injured — perhaps beyond repair. I was surrounded by people who wanted me to show a “Rockstar Testimony” and I delivered. They wanted me to be the poster child of how to suffer well. I nailed it.
The organizational image was more important than allowing me to simply hurt and process that pain. People wanted me to stand up and keep going while carrying my burden because it made the church look good. Eventually, I had to process the loss and the emotions. Then I was told that it had been too long and my feelings were not appropriate or valid. All feelings have to be processed eventually. My feelings about the church were processed later and I still have feelings of betrayal.
My faith in the church is no longer whole.
Now you are asking for more faith and more activity. You are asking me to give more. Instead, how about simply caring about me and my family? Be my spiritual leader instead of my shift manager.
All too true.
My father was murdered when I was young. When I joined the Church, one of the biggest draws was that I’d be able to do his temple ordinances. A couple weeks before I was to start temple prep classes, I went to reserve his name, and his father’s, only to find that someone had reserved and submitted them both just a week before. As an only child, I’m the “closest living relative” by the Church’s definition, but neither of his siblings had been contacted either, so whoever did it didn’t even bother to try to get permission. I felt betrayed, and particularly so because some “temple worthy” person lied to take away something rightfully mine that I had wanted so much.
I went to talk to the bishop. His response was, “That’s awful, but I’m glad you came to me. You see, the Sunday School secretary is moving out of the ward.”
I was seeking compassion, understanding, at least some validation of my feelings and instead I got a (third) calling.
Needless to say, my attendance has been pretty low since then. When I do go, I notice that even SM attendance numbers are more pathetic than normal, and I have to wonder how many others needed help and were basically told they needed to work harder to help those “worthy” of help and stop complaining about being left out in the cold themselves.
NightSG and AP – I am sorry that you have had this pain inflicted. I hope you both can somehow find some peace.
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