- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
You know, I have no problem with someone who says they don’t believe in something such as the church just because they don’t believe. But a lot of anti Mormons I know preach blatant lies about the church. I know that my Dad who’s a stake president is going with another church representative to this Anti-Mormon forum that a local Evangelical Church is hosting. They’re bringing people who are Anti Mormons to “educate” their congregation on Mormonism. Well, my Dad had lunch with these people last week and wondered if he could attend in order to correct things that are wrong about the faith. The people who are speaking are paid to give Anti Mormon rhetoric and “educate” congregations around the nation about the Mormon faith. Now this goes to be original question: why do so many of these anti Mormons seem bitter about something? Almost like they were simply offended at church one day and decided to become an anti Mormon. I have even visited the Ex-Mormon.org website and the majority of the people on there are absolute filth and tell so many lies about the church. A lot of them sound like those crazy conspiracy theorists. lol
willb1993 wrote:You know, I have no problem with someone who says they don’t believe in something such as the church just because they don’t believe. But a lot of anti Mormons I know preach blatant lies about the church. I know that my Dad who’s a stake president is going with another church representative to this Anti-Mormon forum that a local Evangelical Church is hosting. They’re bringing people who are Anti Mormons to “educate” their congregation on Mormonism. Well, my Dad had lunch with these people last week and wondered if he could attend in order to correct things that are wrong about the faith. The people who are speaking are paid to give Anti Mormon rhetoric and “educate” congregations around the nation about the Mormon faith.
Now this goes to be original question: why do so many of these anti Mormons seem bitter about something? Almost like they were simply offended at church one day and decided to become an anti Mormon. I have even visited the Ex-Mormon.org website and the majority of the people on there are absolute filth and tell so many lies about the church. A lot of them sound like those crazy conspiracy theorists. lol
I think you would have to find a way to ask them if they are bitter or if their anger is driven by a different source than bitterness. I have been bitter in my own faith crisis…and I recognize I’ve struggled. BOY do I recognize I’ve struggled.
I do NOT, however, want to tare down someone else’s faith. In my case, I want to be heard and understood…but going out of my way to destroy someone else’s faith–well, that goes a different route. Bigotry, hate and defamation can all mold together in many ways and cause all kinds of problems.
For some it is a paying job with the benefit of socking it to a group they think are idiots. And what an easy job given the history that is VERY odd and all over the place (and if you have not studied books without “Deseret books” don’t cast stones until you have) Some are ex-Mos that are still pissed that the church lied to them and will be as fervent anti-Mormons as they were fervent missionaries.
Some others are honest loving people that want to save souls and what they know (correct or not) motivates them just like the church does missionary work.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are also other churches who consider the LDS church as “sheep stealers” because of our missionary work. When you steal sheep you deprive the 1st church of revenue. Plus, they have no active missionary program that
makes up the difference. They rely on new families moving in. I’m sure there are many reasons for the bitter feelings.
This could be one of them.
Minyan Man wrote:There are also other churches who consider the LDS church as “sheep stealers” because of our missionary work.
When you steal sheep you deprive the 1st church of revenue. Plus, they have no active missionary program that
makes up the difference. They rely on new families moving in. I’m sure there are many reasons for the bitter feelings.
This could be one of them.
I remember when the time came for me to serve a mission my family pulled out all the stops. Some family members got their Presbyterian minister to stop by to tell me that I could never join their church even if I wanted to because I was a Mormon. I was headed out on a mission, completely convinced of the restoration, so it had no effect. I think the overreaction may have had something to do with Joseph Smith saying (and members canonizing), “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” Poke a bear…
willb1993 wrote:Now this goes to be original question: why do so many of these anti Mormons seem bitter about something? Almost like they were simply offended at church one day and decided to become an anti Mormon.
To quote Uchtdorf, “One might ask, ‘If the gospel is so wonderful, why would anyone leave?’ Sometimes we assume it is because they have been offended or lazy or sinful. Actually, it is not that simple. In fact, there is not just one reason that applies to the variety of situations.”
Perhaps people have very valid reasons to be bitter. I think if we approach people by telling them they are wrong for felling bitter then we run the risk of fueling their bitterness. That’s one of the strikes on us, we want to tell people what their problems are instead of listening to them.
willb1993 wrote:I have even visited the Ex-Mormon.org website and the majority of the people on there are absolute filth and tell so many lies about the church. A lot of them sound like those crazy conspiracy theorists. lol
Absolute filth? I might be tempted to become bitter towards a group that labeled me as absolute filth. Poke a bear…
BTW, that was one of the things that I had to work through, that many of the lies about the church weren’t actually lies at all. Sure there are truths mixed with half truths but that tends to surface on any side with an agenda.
If you really want bitter, look at political parties and those who hate the other side. Some people find getting wound up about stuff floats their boat and connects them to others who will join the frenzy. It’s a hobby. Something to pass the time.
It’s not a uniquely mormon thing.
For some the bitterness is the stage you pass through when the rug gets pulled out from under you. It happened to me but I got past it and I agree with Nibbler that some of it isn’t lies, just some uncomfortable truths that nobody thought you ought to know anything about. And I would be careful about characterizing someone who doesn’t agree with you as “filth”. It makes it hard to get a discussion started. WillB – looking through this forum, I’ve noticed that you are posting a lot of topics wondering why those outside the church are so mean, hateful, hypocritical, etc. If I may, I’d respectfully suggest that you try to identify what it is about your ownfaith transition that’s causing you to see persecution everywhere. There’s an interesting phennomenon known as
diegogarcityI would not recommend visiting anti-Mormon or ex-Mormon sites unless you’re truly interested in leaving the Church. The fact that you”re posting on
StayLDS tells me that you’re not. But I’ve also been around long enough to know that you can’t use the word ‘just’ in describing ex-Mormons – they aren’t ‘just’ bitter or ‘just’ lazy or ‘just’ offended. I’ve seen people that I love leave the Church (and even join ex-Mormon websites) and there was no ‘just.’ Often times, people leave because they were deeply hurt by a Church they once loved, a Church they thought loved them back. That’s a sad situation similar to finding out your spouse doesn’t love you anymore, and I don’t think it can be easily written off. I agree that some of the stuff found on anti sites is not lies – but the vast majority is. Most of it does contain some truth mixed with lies, but it is lies nonetheless. I would give an example but I don’t want to go look at any of it. That’s what I don’t really understand about it. The truth can be damning enough without having to embellish it, as is often done. In the early stages of my FC when I went looking for online help, it’s ex-Mormon and anti sites that mostly popped up. I recall being dismayed because I recognized stuff as lies and then there was all this vitriol associated with them. I don’t visit those sites for the same reason I didn’t go to church for a long time – I just couldn’t stand to see/hear stuff I knew wasn’t true. Thus I agree with Joni, stay away from them. I have a lot of interaction with Exmo’s, through my blog and facebook discussion of my blog posts. My posts partially appeal to Exmo’s because my position is that the BOM is not historical and the foundation events of Mormonism are not as they are stated. But also I really drive Exmo’s crazy because my other position is that “it’s OK”, the church is still true in the sense that it is a wonderful community to serve in and worship God. So, I interact with Exmo’s a lot. Many are awesome and rational and cool to talk to. Many are super pissed off and just out for blood. Also, they tend to travel in packs, just like LDS do and is basic human nature I guess, so they play off each other and a lot of times just come across rude as hell and more prone to “group think” thank Mo’s are. willb1993, I do understand what you mean. Anti-mormonism has always been rooted in some form of truth but very frequently exaggerates for maximum effect. In addition, much if it minimizes what we really do believe on a basic level and seeks to focus on the the fringe. I mean, seriously. When was the last time we had a talk in Church about Adam-God? Yet to hear the anti message, you’d think that we pray to Adam. One of my personal favorite distortions is that we believe that “Jesus and the Devil are brothers”. In anti-mormonism, JS is viewed as only possessing dark qualities of a villain… but I note that that is very similar to the way that he has been portrayed as an idyllic hero in the Church dialog… opposite sides of the same coin.
To acknowledge joni’s Gold Ford Taurus Effect, let me say that I am aware and sensitive to attacks on faith. As an Atheist, I’m often frustrated by the hubris of my fellow Atheists in condemning faith. For many of us, it’s not sufficient to believe in no God, but it must be accompanied with rejection of those who believe as non-thinking sheep. It frustrates me, because I think that belief is a personal choice and that no one should judge another person based on belief or try to shoot down the belief of another. So, because of my situation, I recoil at anti-mormonism, anti-catholicism, anti-judaism, or anti-islamic attacks.
Why all the anti-Mormon rhetoric, often accompanied with what we might think of as inaccuracies or at least distortions? I’m sure that there are reasons. For starters, that’s what they believe to be truth. Also, I suspect that for traditional conservative Christians, the LDS Church is an abomination; an affront to the truth of God. It’s not hard to imagine what that must feel like to them. Just think of how we feel about the FLDS Church and its practices: it’s a ‘corruption’ of what we hold so dearly.
But, I think it’s worth noting that we can’t really change the approaches of others through any direct means. Rather, we have been taught to treat others the way we would hope to be treated. In doing so, we can take the bite out of these unseemly attacks. The author of Colossians admonished in Chapter 4, that when speaking with non-believers:
Quote:Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt.
“Seasoned with salt” is sometimes misinterpreted to mean something like “with sharpness”, kind of like saying, be nice, but only to a point, then it’s OK to use salty language. But the author lived in the ancient world, and it’s probable that what he or she meant by this phrase was to make sure it that the speech of a believer was ‘palatable’ to the person listening.
In the first century, early Christians were in a much worse position than Mormons are today. Paul advised in Romans, Chapter 12:
Quote:Contribute to the needs of the saints; extend hospitality to strangers. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep… Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves… Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
willb, I’ve been thinking about your question as it relates to the “anti-Mormons” in my family. These are guys who would gladly, for money or for free, take any opportunity to speak against the church in their own churches. (And they have.) Some of them managed to preserve their relationship with my mother, their Mormon-convert sister. But they are
sincerelydismayed by her beliefs, some of it the “fringe” stuff that worked its way into their extensive conversations. When they talked at length about God and Christ…things were said. My mom had been taught that Mary conceived Christ through sexual intercourse with God the Father. They freaked out. It’s hard for them to sort everything out.
But I do think it just becomes a satisfying hobby horse for some.
On Own Now wrote:Anti-mormonism has always been rooted in some form of truth but very frequently exaggerates for maximum effect.
If you remove the “Anti-” from the beginning, it’s still a true statement.
On Own Now wrote:Just think of how we feel about the FLDS Church and its practices: it’s a ‘corruption’ of what we hold so dearly.
There are women who leave the Warren Jeff’s cult, and then dedicate their whole lives to helping rescue other young impressionable girls. They are angry and frustrated for what happened to them. They are anti-Mormon, just a slightly different flavor — yet we applaud their efforts.
Many see Mormon missionary work as anti-Catholic, anti-[insert religion here]. We send young men door to door to “convert” people, which is essentially the process of knocking down parts of their current beliefs and replacing them with ones we like better. We applaud this “conversion” process and support it, even when the person is disowned by family members.
This whole conversation is an interesting study in group dynamics. In a way, we all react to opposition exactly the way human beings are programmed to react. We give labels to the opposition, discredit them, spread fear about them, avoid them, and always always speak in general terms: things like “most of what they say is a lie”, “they are just bitter and unhappy”, “they left because of X,Y,Z”, “they are deceived, misguided, brainwashed”. Because if we actually got to know them as a person, we might actually like them and realize that they are reasonable people with reasonable arguments. It goes both ways.
marty wrote:On Own Now wrote:Anti-mormonism has always been rooted in some form of truth but very frequently exaggerates for maximum effect.
If you remove the “Anti-” from the beginning, it’s still a true statement.
On Own Now wrote:Just think of how we feel about the FLDS Church and its practices: it’s a ‘corruption’ of what we hold so dearly.
There are women who leave the Warren Jeff’s cult, and then dedicate their whole lives to helping rescue other young impressionable girls. They are angry and frustrated for what happened to them. They are anti-Mormon, just a slightly different flavor — yet we applaud their efforts.
Many see Mormon missionary work as anti-Catholic, anti-[insert religion here]. We send young men door to door to “convert” people, which is essentially the process of knocking down parts of their current beliefs and replacing them with ones we like better. We applaud this “conversion” process and support it, even when the person is disowned by family members.
This whole conversation is an interesting study in group dynamics. In a way, we all react to opposition exactly the way human beings are programmed to react. We give labels to the opposition, discredit them, spread fear about them, avoid them, and always always speak in general terms: things like “most of what they say is a lie”, “they are just bitter and unhappy”, “they left because of X,Y,Z”, “they are deceived, misguided, brainwashed”. Because if we actually got to know them as a person, we might actually like them and realize that they are reasonable people with reasonable arguments. It goes both ways.
:thumbup: marty wrote:This whole conversation is an interesting study in group dynamics. In a way, we all react to opposition exactly the way human beings are programmed to react. We give labels to the opposition, discredit them, spread fear about them, avoid them, and always always speak in general terms: things like “most of what they say is a lie”, “they are just bitter and unhappy”, “they left because of X,Y,Z”, “they are deceived, misguided, brainwashed”. Because if we actually got to know them as a person, we might actually like them and realize that they are reasonable people with reasonable arguments. It goes both ways.
+1
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.