- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
So finding this site and reading some of the posts on here is such a liberating feeling for my trapped opinions. 
If one of the GA’s were to come in and read this are they going to think that we are being lead by the “spirit of the devil” (as I have heard I am)?
What is funny to me is if I had had these thoughts earlier my husband would have been on board with me and this wouldn’t have been so hard. Since he found his testimony and he is now concerned with my eternal salvation it has made things much more difficult.
How is it so many people can’t see that just as they think they are right there are even more people that feel they are right in their religion? If the Holy Ghost only resides with those that have baptized in our church then why do other people feel inspired to do things and have promptings? If we really have the true priesthood how come there aren’t more healing as there was in Christs time? If we are part of the true church why are we so judgmental of those that are searching for truth?
I think I just needed to ask some of the questions that have been bothering me. I have read some of the posts that the church can’t focus on those of us that do question as it will stumble those that are TBM. I just wish there was some answers out there.
Some people said that Joseph Smith was led by the devil, some Mormons said the same of Brigham Young, so being accused of such a thing might not necessarily make you unmormon! (Or led by the devil) Quote:If the Holy Ghost only resides with those that have baptized in our church then why do other people feel inspired to do things and have promptings
As a convert, I can assure you people do feel it outside the church. I did in some churches, especially Pentecostalism, because many people there had personal conversions. (There was a downside to that form of religion, but that’s another matter.)
Quote:If we really have the true priesthood how come there aren’t more healing as there was in Christs time?
“More” is subjective. It does happen sometimes, but not always in ways we expect.
Quote:If we are part of the true church why are we so judgmental of those that are searching for truth?
Because many BICs have not truly made that journey of discovery that converts do, and some converts are no longer making it.
There is a general rule in societal organizations, which applies to the church, especially, that only 85% of the people will fit in the “box.” For 85% of the active LDS members, the church is PERFECT. The leaders know that, and they I think they realized that they HAVE to accommodate the masses. Most active members in the LDS church are happy with it. 85% of the people WANT, EXPECT, and NEED to be told pretty well exactly HOW to believe, HOW to act, and WHAT to think. It is the safe way. The problem is, us poor souls who make up the 15% get left behind, hanging onto the fringes, struggling to fit in and survive. Doug had a topic here a couple months ago about personality types – and it fits the model as well. 60-80% of people are what are called Guardians – who thrive on tradition, culture, respect for authority, and set standards for behavior. Most active mormons are guardians. If you are here, you probably ARE NOT a guardian. Most of us on these kind of blogs are Realists or Idealists. We make up the minority or society, which includes religions, political groups, civic organization and the work place. Perhaps look around, you probably find that you are having “faith crisis’s” in many areas of your life – not just with the church?
I think we’re ok and that’s about all that matters to me. I’m sure some GA’s would feel that some of us are being led away by a bad spirit but that is not my own personal experience. I was taught that satan cannot mimick peace and well I feel a lot of peace these days, more than when I was TBM. I really do feel like I’m walking the path God would want me too and so I can’t rely on what leadership or other members say I’m going through. My dh even gave me a blessing awhile ago that told me that God was pleased with my questions and my seeking. I don’t understand a lot of things but my heart is telling me that this process and StayLDS and even NOM are an important part of my spiritual development. I’m not far enough along the path to answer any questions but at this point it all feels right. I don’t know another way to determine the goodness of my path other than feeling. It’s the way I roll I guess. As to others of different faiths having spiritual experiences and being good people. Absolutely. I have a very good friend who is a former Catholic nun with a masters in theology who is now agnostic with a very deep spiritual side. Good, Good, Good person. I can’t image God not being happy with how she lives her life. There are many different paths to God and Mormonism is a good one. So is Catholisism, Buddism, Muslim and perhaps even Athieism. Any source that helps us become one with diety eventually. Love is the overriding principle here.
As they are saying now, “It Get’s Better”. At least I have faith that I will eventually feel more and more peace as I work through my beliefs and chart my path.
Keep asking questions. They are GOOD!!!!!
Butters wrote:If the Holy Ghost only resides with those that have baptized in our church then why do other people feel inspired to do things and have promptings? If we really have the true priesthood how come there aren’t more healing as there was in Christs time?
Oh yeah, my answer to these two questions is very simple. What we are taught in primary and what most LDS believe about the HG and the priesthood is WRONG. These are cultural doctrines, that, like so many others, have taken on a life on it’s own.
Butters, not that it automatically makes a hill of beans difference for you, but I certainly am OK. I’m not seen as a threat by anyone of whom I am aware, so my “unique views” are accepted and even valued by most of the people in my ward and stake. Of course, I’ve spent decades building up social capital by serving actively in the Church – and from the outside my life looks stereotypically orthodox – and that really helps. I have been on two different High Councils over the last four years, and I have been fairly open about my views and my involvement with people who are struggling with crises of faith – both privately and, when appropriate, from the pulpit. Both of my Stake Presidents have thanked me for my “unique” perspective. Fwiw, I personally know that the apostles are well aware of people like us – and that they know there are more of us than most members realize. (That’s not an abstract “testimony” use of “know”; it’s a personal, factual knowledge.) They have been aware of it for a long time, and I am encouraged greatly by the way that they have been addressing “us” over the last 10-15 years – which I believe is intentional in the case of individual apostles. Elder Wirthlin spoke about “us” quite often, and there have been multiple GC talks and training statements recently that say all of our voices should be heard and valued. Pres. Uchtdorf has taken Elder Wirthlin’s place as the most vocal advocate of respect for those who see things differently, but Elder Anderson and Elder Cook both have said the same thing in no uncertain terms.
I know it will take time for that message to get to the end of many local rows – and I know individual local leaders can build dams that divert that message so it never gets to the end of their rows, but I truly am encouraged now. I know the overall tone and content is dramatically different than it was when I was a teenager living in Utah County.
Butters wrote:So finding this site and reading some of the posts on here is such a liberating feeling for my trapped opinions…But are we OK?
If one of the GA’s were to come in and read this are they going to think that we are being lead by the “spirit of the devil”(as I have heard I am)?…What is funny to me is if I had had these thoughts earlier my husband would have been on board with me and this wouldn’t have been so hard. Since he found his testimony and he is now concerned with my eternal salvation it has made things much more difficult…I have read some of the posts that the church can’t focus on those of us that do question as it will stumble those that are TBM… The way I see it, I can’t imagine any kind of God that is worth paying attention to really blaming me too much for believing what I do given the information and tools for trying to discover the truth that I had to work with. As far as I’m concerned, only a malicious trixter god with a rather sick sense of humor would really make it such a confusing uphill battle to try to believe that the LDS Church is really everything that it claims to be and then expect me to believe it all anyway in spite of all the glaring problems and inconsistencies. If this life is mostly just a test that only good obedient Mormons can ever pass then it seems like a huge waste of life experience to see that more than 99% of the people in the world are not LDS and the majority of the members they still count are not active while even fewer are “temple worthy.”
It seems like a few revelations at the right times could have easily made the LDS Church look much more legitimate and credible to honest truth-seekers that have the best possible intentions. The only way I can make any sense of it all is simply to assume that the LDS Church is mostly just a man-made institution just like every other religious sect out there. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it is a particularly bad organization at this point, I just think more members should take some of what the Church preaches with a grain of salt and think for themselves a little more rather than just accepting almost everything the Church tells them they should believe.
Of course, some TBMs would probably think that the devil has already taken over my soul but I really doubt it. Basically, if I am wrong then I don’t want to be right and it would take a miracle similar to Paul’s conversion to get me to ever repent of my supposed “apostasy” with regard to the Church. To be honest I hope that some GAs will read some of these comments made by disaffected members and I would write them a nasty letter myself if I thought they would actually listen to it because it looks like all is not well in Zion but as far as I can tell either they are completely oblivious to some of these problems or else they are deliberately trying to deny the reality of the situation.
Ugh, so I typed up a reply and now it is gone. I don’t know what happened to it. (I did check the drafts and it isn’t there either). Anyway, so I can’t begin to tell you how nice it is to HEAR from people that share my same ideas. I love to know that I am not the only one that has thought these thoughts!!
Canadiangirl, I agree with you. I have felt calm and even happier since accepting that everything mormon isn’t right or correct. It has lifted a great weight and I feel that I can move forward with life and not think that I am a heathen!
Ray- It will be interesting to see what happens as I get released. I have been a very influential young women leader (IMO) so it will be very interesting to see what is said to me. I don’t think that I have enough clout to sway any opinions or anything, but I hope they realize that I am still a good person. I don’t plan on telling anyone all of my hang-ups because I don’t really feel it is my place to introduce ideas to people that might make them question their faith. That is for their own discovery. If you have conference talks or something that you were referring to that the GA’s have “spoken” to us, I would love to read them.
cwald wrote:Butters wrote:If the Holy Ghost only resides with those that have baptized in our church then why do other people feel inspired to do things and have promptings? If we really have the true priesthood how come there aren’t more healing as there was in Christs time?
Oh yeah, my answer to these two questions is very simple. What we are taught in primary and what most LDS believe about the HG and the priesthood is WRONG. These are cultural doctrines, that, like so many others, have taken on a life on it’s own.
If you would expound on what you mean, I would appreciate it. And as for maybe I have crisis other than religious right now, you may be right. I will have to think on it.I think that you are right, DevilsAdvocate. I don’t see how God could be angry with me that I have so many questions. I don’t like the “scare tactic” that is used that because I have “the truth” I will be held accountable. If I have the truth and I have questions about it then shouldn’t someone help answer those so that I could be held accountable?
Sometimes I do wish I was a convert so that I could feel that difference that people say there is with having the HG and not. Someone asked me if I felt a bad spirit come in as I was reading all of this information that has given me questions. My answer was NO. How is more knowledge bad AND since I wasn’t reading this information from anti sites how could a bad spirit influence it? I just don’t understand some of the thinking here.
I am still trying to decide how much of this is a blessing or a curse from the Lord, but He has given me many, many things that have given me empathy for others. I feel like this is just another one of those “blessings” because I now know that if one of my children choose a different path, it isn’t going to be the end of the world. I only hope that I learn all that I can so that I can help those that do choose to talk to me about it. I am grateful that I can see gray. It makes you care for others so much more than if you believe they are all sinners.
Butters wrote:
cwald wrote:Butters wrote:If the Holy Ghost only resides with those that have baptized in our church then why do other people feel inspired to do things and have promptings? If we really have the true priesthood how come there aren’t more healing as there was in Christs time?
Oh yeah, my answer to these two questions is very simple. What we are taught in primary and what most LDS believe about the HG and the priesthood is WRONG. These are cultural doctrines, that, like so many others, have taken on a life on it’s own.
If you would expound on what you mean, I would appreciate it. And as for maybe I have crisis other than religious right now, you may be right. I will have to think on it.I don’t want to really derail your post too much, and these are issues we discuss often here in detail. Very simply, what I mean, is that it is NOT TRUE that only LDS members who are following the “commandments” are privileged to feel the holy ghost. I have NEVER been more in tune with HG than I am right now, and I don’t follow all the “LDS” commandments. It is WRONG, IMO, to teach that one will lose the HG if they don’t do this or if they this. We too often use fear and guilt in our church, because it works, rather than teaching pure spiritual concepts. Sure, it can happen, one might not feel the HG if they don’t want to, but I have had many experiences of “feeling the spirit” while doing things like, drinking a beer with a nonmember friend, or not going to a church meeting or service and instead spending time with my kids or say taking my tithing money and donating it to a local 4-H group etc. etc..
As far as other non-LDS folks – well, yeah, it was part of my beginning of faith crisis too, because a just and fair god would never say the hell with 99.99% of the populations and only focus on us mormons. There are so many great people out there who are not LDS, who are following god path and “speaking” with god that the concept that we have this monopoly on the HG, god and religion, is ludicrous. Now, I have no doubt that the LDS church leaders knows this and even teach it, it’s one of the concepts of “pure mormonism” — find “truth” and goodness wherever one may. The problem is our culture has become very similar to the ancient jewish culture with focuses on obedience and rules, and how blessed they are because we are the chosen people, and that everyone else are “gentiles” and not privy to the same blessings. The whole “one and only true church” concept that just, realistically, logically and spiritually, doesn’t jive my personal belief system.
I simple don’t believe it. I do believe that the LDS church is a great, divinely inspired pathway, (one of many) that one can use to find god. The church is good. In this regard, it has worked wonders for me. I used my conditioning and training and upbringing in the church to find god — which is ironic because all that training has backfired against the “institution”, which, I think is the way that god wanted it to be. At least in my case, IMO. We all must find our own path. And, as unpopular as it might be in the LDS culture, we cannot rely on prophets and local leaders to do it for us. Many of our people have become so dependent on “the priesthood” that they have become spiritually lazy and no longer know how to find answers and have a personal relationship with the gods.
Opps – I mean God.
PS Buttars —- I am a huge South Park fan! cwald wrote:PS Buttars —- I am a huge South Park fan!
The funny thing about this is that I have only seen 3 episodes. I thought they were funny. I picked “Butters” just because that is what first came to mind and when I searched to find something that related to it this Southpark guy pulled up. When I read a description of him I thought it fit me pretty well. Guess it was meant to be.
I’m OK. Seriously, never been happier, more satisfied, or felt closer to God. The world actually starts to make a lot more sense this way, at least to me. I enjoy going to Church now. Crazy huh? Brian, that’s a scary looking avatar. Where did you find it? 
He probably just did a yahoo search. You can find all kind of goofy looking weirdos on the net. DevilsAdvocate wrote: Quote:“If this life is mostly just a test that only good obedient Mormons can ever pass then it seems like a huge waste of life experience to see that more than 99% of the people in the world are not LDS and the majority of the members they still count are not active while even fewer are “temple worthy.”
This is one of the biggest reasons I have a real hard time going along with the “one and only true church on the earth” mentality. It is just ridiculously inconceivable that God would turn his back on so many of his children. God is so much bigger than that.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.