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When I first had a faith crisis I had a strong desire to be understood. I wanted to tell people what I thought and how I believed. I didn’t, of course. But I wanted to. As time went on I found myself more and more comfortable with my new faith perspective. Eventually, I was comfortable enough I thought I would share my…what? I didn’t even know how to phrase adequately what it was I would share. My opinions? Everyone has them. My beliefs? Everyone has those too. I imagined a conversation between me and a friend and wondered why I would even have such a conversation. They would wonder what had gotten into me that I felt a need to randomly start expressing my unsolicited opinion on stuff. Yes, I hold different beliefs than others more conservative in the LDS faith. But then, so too do conservative members hold varying beliefs with one other. Sometimes, like many of you, I’ll have a “bad day” at church. You know it. The sunday school class where the conversation is just so….frustrating! “Joseph Smith was so honest!” or “The Church is perfect”, yada yada. It’s easy to think that it is our change in perspective, our adaptation of some unorthodox beliefs that cause us to sometimes have anguish at church. However, I remember that even when I was more orthodox in by beliefs I would sometimes feel frustrated by some comment at church. I know orthodox members who won’t even go to Sunday School because they have a problem with the teacher and their teaching style or content. They label his material as “False doctrine.”
So I ask, are we really so different from our more orthodox brothers and sisters? Does the fact that our thoughts/beliefs more often conflict with the norm make us fundamentally different? Or do we just have more opportunities to feel frustrated to to our thoughtful, critical approach to faith?
I think of the areas where I fall short as a member and see that some of my close friends in the ward (who again are very orthodox/conservative) fall short in the exact same areas.
I wonder if the fact that we feel so different as to warrant labeling other members as “orthodox” or “tbm” is more an indication of our own internal struggles and less that of true difference.
Quote:2 Nephi 26:33 And he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile, [iron-rodder and liahonaer]
Quote:I wonder if the fact that we feel so different as to warrant labeling other members as “orthodox” or “tbm” is more an indication of our own internal struggles and less that of true difference.
Well, we all tend to believe we are right.
Really good thoughts. There’s a lot to consider in this post.
I’ve thought about this a bit myself, Eric. My experience is much like yours. I have learned to notice what people say in things like testimonies and prayers – and what they don’t say. These things can be much more telling than one might think at first glance. I’m sure there are as many degrees of orthodoxy and unorthodoxy as there are members of the church. I actually first noticed this when I worked at a Jewish school and one of the other Christians and I had a conversation one day about how diverse they were in their beliefs. Later I realized we’re all that way, but as Mormons we don’t have “reform” or “orthodox” or “conservative” branches to identify with – we’re all one (excepting the off shoots, of course). Within this one though there certainly are all of the above and many more (just like in Judaism). Perhaps when we’ve been around for a few thousand years it will be different. No we are not all that different. We have opinions and enjoy having those opinions heard, validated, and confirmed.
I sometimes visit a particular news channel just to see how blatantly biased and distorted the news is being reported.
Yet I know some really good, salt of the earth, people that listen to the same news channel as though it were gospel truth.
Unfortunately we are in a bit of a quandry with the church. I would love to see more acceptance of diversity (as in diversity of doing things and being accepted). OTOH, our entire model is somewhat built on God revealing his perfect way of doing things and our choice to either get with the program or get out of the way.
OTOH, (how many hands is that now) Our speaker in SM said “One of the only constants in the church is change.” She was speaking about wards splitting and reorganizing at the time but I took note and smiled at how truly broad her statement actually is.
DarkJedi wrote:I have learned to notice what people say in things like testimonies and prayers – and what they don’t say. These things can be much more telling than one might think at first glance.
:thumbup: Me too. My wife calls it “over analyzing.” I call it attempting to see past the awkwardness of language and into the heart and mind of the speaker.
I’ll admit that I wrote this post in response to the several threads right now about leaving, staying, and the whys thereof. I admit that I am incredibly biased. While I validate that there are many paths, I prefer people travel the one I take.
Roy wrote:our entire model is somewhat built on God revealing his perfect way of doing things and our choice to either get with the program or get out of the way.
I would change this to say “our entireflawedmodel is…” I understand that for most members, God’s revelation is perfect and without flaw. But we understand this differently. That line of thinking, that model, will only remain the model so long as the majority believe it is so. The more people that understand that revelation is far from perfect and is shaped by our language, experience, etc, the more likely it is that the model will change. Being the minority voice means our message necessarily must be more subtle. Thus the more voices that remain to support a more correct (at least for us) model, the better! Eric Merrill wrote:Roy wrote:our entire model is somewhat built on God revealing his perfect way of doing things and our choice to either get with the program or get out of the way.
I would change this to say “our entireflawedmodel is…” I understand that for most members, God’s revelation is perfect and without flaw. But we understand this differently. That line of thinking, that model, will only remain the model so long as the majority believe it is so. The more people that understand that revelation is far from perfect and is shaped by our language, experience, etc, the more likely it is that the model will change. Being the minority voice means our message necessarily must be more subtle. Thus the more voices that remain to support a more correct (at least for us) model, the better! I agree!
In some ways, no, we’re not that different. In some ways I think I am very different from how I believed before, and therefore very different from many others because discussions with some have made it evident some things are quite different, and pretty disturbing to others. But part of your post is saying that differences exist. So while it may be partially different, that isn’t so different from others who are partially different.
Its not that differences exist, it is what the difference are that creates an uncomfortable aura or not. Having a different opinion on whether the flood covered the whole earth or not is not something most members would get too worked up on, or even science vs religion.
Saying God doesn’t exist will create a different reaction from people. So there are some fundamental things that attack the heart of the religious beliefs. All differences are not equal.
Therefore, how you talk about the faith and doubts is important in navigating through the differences with the ward members. A conjunctive faith is more comfortable with differences and appreciates them and doesn’t see the need to highlight them to others. If I understand the point of the OP, however, I think you are saying that sometimes our sensitivity to new ideas isn’t always the same as others’, and that the person next to you in sacrament meeting might be more different than you think. And I agree with that completely.
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