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Have any of you studied the different theories of the atonement? e.g. ransom theory, satisfaction, substitution, moral influence, scapegoating, christus victor, etc. What theory of the atonement do you think is emphasized in the church? Do you agree with this theory? Which theory(ies) do you personally abscribe to? Is there a theory that explains everything about the atonement? (I’d say no) What theory emphasizes the most important parts of Christ’s mission? My view: Quote:What theory of the atonement do you think is emphasized in the church?
All of them, at different times to make different points.
Quote:Do you agree with this theory?
Absolutely!
Quote:Which theory(ies) do you personally abscribe to?
All of them – with a primary leaning toward the symbolic scapegoat.
Quote:Is there a theory that explains everything about the atonement? (I’d say no)
Nope.
Quote:What theory emphasizes the most important parts of Christ’s mission?
All of them.
I think you can see my personal view quite clearly – with the caveat that I’m fine with people disagreeing on the answers based on what resonates with each of them.
In general, I like to look at the Atonement as an “umbrella policy” for us all. We can’t blame Adam, we can’t blame God, we can’t blame anything for our potential. I have tried to understand how Christ can suffer for my sins specifically before I committed them, or every sickness possible…in the end, I just think he suffered enough to make it acceptable as a sacrifice.
The plan is we now have a way to make mistakes and overcome them and a way to find peace and love after sin, but we must realize we cannot overcome our problems on our own. We must look outside ourselves to become better.
That’s about as deep as I can get.
I have thought it is not so much a matter of atoning for our sins but setting an example of sacrifice. Christ showing his ultimate compassion was willing to suffer both mentally and physically perhaps to show us the degree that he was willing to go for us. In other words I (being Christ) suffered these things for all, now you must be willing to follow and sacrifice for your fellowmen. Not in agony as he did but by service. What he went through was the best option to make it a universal symbol. This is of course just speculation on my part but it is how I have been able to give merit to the act of the atonement. As far as the church is concerned I believe they very much teach the debt debtor concept.
I think Cadence summed up how I feel about a few things. imo what I get from the Church (leaders, anyway) is a type of guilt with Jesus Christ mixed with a little of what would Jesus do. That is just my honest observation. Kind of like Christ died for you, so you really should revovle your life around the Church, because it is HIS Church after all. Other times I hear about the great example he was and how we can and should become more like him.
Personally the only thing I’m kind of firm on is the symbolism,which I’ll explain, that the atonement brings out to me when I think about it. I try not to focus on the death of Jesus Christ. I don’t believe that is what we were meant to focus on. When I think of Jesus I want to remember him for his life, his relationships with people around him, his thoughts and his great qualities.
The atonement is guide of what I need to do in my life. I need to forgive people. I need to love people and help people. I need to pray for people and be aware of people around me and far away. I need to try to make a positive impact on the world while I’m here and hopefully people won’t mourn my death but will be grateful for knowing a good person and being positivly influenced by me.
I’m not sure if Christ had to die for me. If he did I would accept it in a heartbeat. I still kind of do but I have my doubts sometimes. More importantly I don’t think it matters … what matters is the lesson and symbolism I find with bettering myself to be able to forgive, help and love others. Less about me and my butt being taken care of (atonement to some people) … More of me taking responsibility for the needs of others.(atonement to me)
The atonement has always been somewhat difficult for me to get my head all the way around. On one hand, it’s a relatively simple idea and concept, often beautiful in its presentation via the church. On the other hand, I don’t think it has ever resonated strongly with me like other concepts, ideas, and teachings of the church. So, while I’ve studied it, taught it, preached it, and argued for it, the atonement, which is one of the core concepts embraced by Christians, has not been one of those ideals that keeps me close and feeling secure. The atonement opens the door for resurrection, makes eternal life possible, brings hope and comfort to distressed souls. Why doesn’t it resonate stronger with me? I don’t know. It’s not like I haven’t accessed the repentence process. I kind of like LaLaLove’s ideas on the lessons and symbolism of the atonement and how it has led him/her to a better life of service to others.
I also reserve the right to change my mind about anything I’ve said or will say. ha.
I completely accept the doctrine of the Atonement as taught in the Book of Mormon. I do also add one teaching from Lucretia Mott, whom I believe was also inspired from God. As most of you know, Lucretia Mott was the founder of the women’s suffrage movement and the teacher of Elizabeth Caddy Staton and a role model for Susan B. Anthony. She has also been considered one of the leaders in the anti-slavery movement. Why? “The doctrine of vicarious atonement does not change ignorance; herein lies its great harm.” Mott taught that the Atonement would not save us from ignorance and that salvation in Christ required knowledge and moral progress toward righteousness. As a school teacher, Mott believed that women and African American Slaves were being deprived of education and therefore salvation.
The B of M repeatedly stressed that man cannot be saved in ignorance, but JS lacked the vision and drive that Mott had to fully rid our country of slavery (keeping slaves in ignorance). JS gave the revelation, but Mott helped provide the means wherein it could be accomplished, IMO. JS was a Prophet of God, Mott was a Prophetess, IMO and taught me that women need to implement the Will of God in our homes and in society. Therein lies our salvation.
T
I don’t know what theological category this fits into, but I read a talk by Cleon Skousen a long time ago when I was a missionary. I have a printed copy packed away somewhere. Here is the basic point of his talk on the atonement: Jesus is identical to the Father in glory, most like the Father at least, and is like the beloved big brother of ALL the intelligences. He is loved by all creations that can think and love. We as humans are the pinnacle of creation, being superior in nature to all the other intelligences (bugs, animals, the elements, etc.), but all are limited by the bounds of their law. All other creations are held back by the law of their progress, but they also do not have the capacity to disobey. Only humans can. So our sin, our rebellion, should also limit us. That is justice, and it is VITAL for the Father to keep the confidence of law or else all creation falls apart. The Father walks a razors edge (of his own making).
Along comes Jesus who suffers terribly for our sins. This is so shocking and abhorrent to all the intelligences that they cry out and weep for his suffering. The price Jesus pays is enough to satisfy the sense of injustice for our rebellion, and when Jesus presents us to the universe of intelligences, and asks that we be allowed to continue on past the law, the intelligences accept this request out of their deep love for him. For Him alone they will accept this request and the balance between justice and mercy is fulfilled.
That was the gist of it. I have always enjoyed this perspective and possible answer.
Ever since I saw the movie the ‘Passion’, I have pondered the sacrifice Jesus made for us. When I was about 8 and saw movies of the crucifixion I would cry and wonder why the most innocent man in the world would have to have the crap beaten out of them for something I or others did. It made no sense to me. I thought, “Why can’t I just repent and then it’s over with.”
When I went through childbirth the first time, it felt like a crucifixion on the cross. I had a difficult pregnancy as it was and I had gone to Lamaze classes and tried to prepare myself for childbirth. I had what doctors call ‘a dry birth” and it was hours of excruciating pain. I was so traumatized and in so much pain that I was passing out often after the birth. I was angry and mad at God for a while that my childbirth had been such a horrible experience for me after all I had done to prepare myself and hoping for a good experience. Then my baby had colic so bad the first year and I was up every 2 hours all night long with him. I have learned from having children the meaning of sacrifice and giving your life for someone. Even, though I know my sacrifice was minuscule compared to anything Jesus suffered, it gave me a snapshot of the atonement.
Then I had children and God blessed me with one of his most rebellious daughters. We went through hell with her. She was bi-polar and had a baby at 16 out of wedlock. She got evicted from one of the apartments she lived in for wild parties at 17. Eventually, she did learn and grew up but no one wanted to rent to her because of her bad credit and evictions without a co-signer. She begged us to co-sign and we told her we would give her one more chance. We made an agreement that we would co-sign for her but she had to obey our rules. That meant no drinking, smoking, drugs, sex, or wild parties in the apartment. That we would have a key and could come by anytime to check on her. Since we would be responsible for any damage to the apartment which she could not pay, we had the right to set the rules. That’s when it suddenly hit me about the atonement. As a parent we often atone or pay the price for our kids mistakes that they can in no way pay for. My daughter, now has two boys of her own and one is just like her and she sends me the most wonderful cards that shows she understands what hell she put us through. She knows we were willing to suffer and pay the price for her serious mistakes so that she could get through these difficult trials of life without totally messing up her life. We did this because of our great love for her. God knows that many children will be born in to homes where they are beaten and treated horribly. Why would any parent allow their child to be put in a home where they knew their child would be sexually abused, beaten, etc? It is because He knew the damage could be reversed. Through the atonement we have the resurrection and will not lay in the grave forever. But, for paying the uttermost price for our mistakes God expects us to follow His rules.
Because of my love for my children I am willing to give my life for them and go through the valley of the shadow of death. If I, as a mere mortal, am willing to suffer for my children and do almost anything to save them from getting into sin, how much greater must our Heavenly Father’s love be for us. Just like I will never give up on my gay son and pray he comes back to God someday. How much more does a perfect Heavenly parent want to save His children that He created.
I don’t fully understand how and why the atonement works, but apparently it is necessary and I thank my Heavenly Father daily for sending His Son, Jesus Christ to try and save me from my sins.
Wonderful example, bridget. Thank you for sharing it. Sometimes we forget that the Atonement, however we try to understand it intellectually, is not intellectual in nature. Dear Bridge, I love what you said. You are a very spiritual mother and I know you will be blessed.
Thanks Ray and Wallace for you kind compliments. They mean alot to me. I do find that unless I can relate Jesus, God, and the gospel to my every day life, it is meaningless to me. This is an interesting thread for me as I ponder building myself a new atonement theology out of whole new cloth. I do identify with the exemplification aspects of the story of the sacrifice of Jesus (as in The Peacegiver). I don’t identify with the “mercy satisfying justice” aspects.
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