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Only for context… I don’t actually agree with JFS, and I can see real value in wearing a cross as a symbol of conversion and devotion… yet, he articulated the cultural standing of the Church, which is still accurate today. JSF kept an apology column in the Church’s Improvement Erabeginning in the mid-50’s which tried to answer a variety of questions about arcane Mormon beliefs or practices. These were collected into Answers to Gospel Questions. From volume 4: Quote:While we have never questioned the sincerity of Catholics and Protestants for wearing the cross, or felt that they were doing something which was wrong, it is a custom that has never appealed to members of the Church. The motive for such a custom by those who are of other churches, we must conclude, is a most sincere and sacred gesture. To them the cross does not represent an emblem of torture but evidently carried the impression of sacrifice and suffering endured by the Son of God. However, to bow down before a cross or to look upon it as an emblem to be revered because of the fact that our Savior died upon a cross is repugnant to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
To many, like the writer, such a custom is repugnant and contrary to the true worship of our Redeemer. Why should we bow down before a cross or use it as a symbol? Because our Savior died on the cross, the wearing of crosses is to most Latter-day Saints in very poor taste and inconsistent to our worship. Of all the ways ever invented for taking life and the execution of individuals, among the most cruel is likely the cross. This was a favorite method among the Romans who excelled in torture. We may be definitely sure that if our Lord had been killed with a dagger or with a sword, it would have been very strange indeed if religious people of this day would have graced such a weapon by wearing it and adoring it because it was by such a means that our Lord was put to death. — Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, Vol 4.
Now, having supplied that context, let me just add a couple of thoughts. I believe it is odd that our Church has this aversion to cross-wearing, but it’s a hill I’m not willing to die on. And while I believe there is nothing wrong with wearing a cross, I also recognize that an organized event to promote wearing crosses would be viewed as being in “poor taste and inconsistent with [LDS] worship.” Because of that I’ll simply employ the Golden Rule and treat their worship the way I hope they treat mine.
JFS would make sense to me were it not for the temple. Mormons generally don’t wear crosses, but they reference and drive home the awful torture of the crucifixion in every endowment session. In light of that I really don’t understand why we felt so free to take the stance we did. But reading the book helped me see how SLC politics played into it all. Right now my cross is mine. If it becomes a point of contention or division it’s less helpful to me as a pure reminder.
Fwiw, DB, I also do not like the title of this post at all. I am not sure how it was meant, and I know your heart well enough, I think, to believe it wasn’t intentional, but it reads like a call to follow you in wearing a cross in opposition to the church leadership. I’m not comfortable with the implications of that reading, especially given the number of people recently who have, implicitly and explicitly, made calls to follow them as individuals in opposition to the church leadership. Finally, just to put it out there directly,
I have absolutely no idea how Jesus, of Nazareth, would have felt about his disciples wearing crosses. I really don’t – and that is important to recognize, imo. There are very good, reasonable, logical, powerful arguments to be made for both positions (wearing a cross and not wearing a cross) – and I think it is . . . I don’t know the right word other than “wrong” . . . to make this an issue of opposition (which it obviously is) when it doesn’t need to be one. Ann wrote:Right now my cross is mine. If it becomes a point of contention or division it’s less helpful to me as a pure reminder.
Dang, where’s the ‘like’ button?On own now – the quote seems to be saying that members dislike the cross for themselves, not so much that doctrinally we are opposed to it. But what if some members do like it? Did he give leeway to those? LookingHard wrote:On own now – the quote seems to be saying that members dislike the cross for themselves, not so much that doctrinally we are opposed to it. But what if some members do like it? Did he give leeway to those?
You have the entirety of what I found from him. I don’t have any other insight to what he was thinking.LookingHard wrote:On own now – the quote seems to be saying that members dislike the cross for themselves, not so much that doctrinally we are opposed to it. But what if some members do like it? Did he give leeway to those?
On Own Now wrote:it is a custom that has never appealed to members of the Church.
On Own Now wrote:is repugnant to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
On Own Now wrote:contrary to the true worship of our Redeemer.
JFS seems to imply that
trueLatter Day Saints with the truespirit of worship will feel as he did. Just in response to Roy’s post, I just want to point out that On Own Now didn’t say those things, those are from JFS. I don’t feel that the practice is ‘repugnant’ in any way, and I certainly do not agree that it is “contrary to the worship of our Redeemer”. My own feelings are quite opposite. Roy wrote:JFS seems to imply that
trueLatter Day Saints with the truespirit of worship will feel as he did. Isn’t that the fault with many members? That is, if someone (another member, specifically) doesn’t believe exactly as they do the other person is wrong, sinful, lazy, apostate, etc. I recognize that may appear to be a generalization, but it is not meant that way – but there certainly are members who judge that way and that is at least part of the reason many of use are where we are. Were I to choose to wear a cross to church at any time, Aug. 16 or otherwise, I can foresee other members judging me for doing so – in my own ward I could probably name names (including those who would be brash enough to say something about it).
Dark Jedi asked Quote:Isn’t that the fault with many members? That is, if someone (another member, specifically) doesn’t believe exactly as they do the other person is wrong, sinful, lazy, apostate, etc. I recognize that may appear to be a generalization, but it is not meant that way – but there certainly are members who judge that way and that is at least part of the reason many of use are where we are.
Yep – and it’s not going to change, no matter how much we would like it to or how much we try to change it. I won’t thread jack too far here, but my husband and I were discussing this today – Uchtdorf can give a hundred great inclusive talks, but those aren’t the lamps we live by. I know there are a couple of threads running this way, so I won’t mix them up, but life, especially in this church is a tight rope act at best.
DarkJedi wrote:Roy wrote:JFS seems to imply that
trueLatter Day Saints with the truespirit of worship will feel as he did. Isn’t that the fault with many members? That is, if someone (another member, specifically) doesn’t believe exactly as they do the other person is wrong, sinful, lazy, apostate, etc. I recognize that may appear to be a generalization, but it is not meant that way – but there certainly are members who judge that way and that is at least part of the reason many of use are where we are. Were I to choose to wear a cross to church at any time, Aug. 16 or otherwise, I can foresee other members judging me for doing so – in my own ward I could probably name names (including those who would be brash enough to say something about it).
But exactly here is the rub. We can’t control or even say much about the judgments of other people. All we can really do is to try very hard not to be judgmental of them and hope that the good karma comes back to visit us. I wouldn’t feel much angst about what other people think of me wearing a cross. But my concern is that if I wore a cross in defiance of their customs specifically to “open minds” then, I fear that that is just me being judgmental of them.Not wearing crosses is not the same as racism, sexism or homophobia. It’s just a custom… a baseless one, but a harmless one. I think Romans chapter 14 is very
apropos, here. For those interested, I suggest basically any version not called the King James Version, so you can understand it. In this chapter, Paul tries to get people to stop judging each other over customs exactly like this one. He was talking about those who abstain from ‘unclean foods’ vs those who, like Paul, believed that there was no need for such restrictions from a religious-observance perspective. Yet, it’s incredibly easy to map this onto those who abstain from wearing a cross vs those who don’t agree with that custom. The key element of this is that each reader of Paul’s words can only control themselves – and their desire not to judge must, of necessity, be without regard to whether the other party continues to judge. The whole chapter is great, and I feel like it is a hugely important anchor for people like us. But, I particularly love verses 13-22: Quote:Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. If your brother or sister is being injured by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died. So do not let your good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. The one who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and has human approval. Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for you to make others fall by what you eat; it is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother or sister stumble. The faith that you have, have as your own conviction before God. –Romans 14:13-22 NRSV
The first few men that wore non-white shirts to church probably got an earful. I know a few people that got an earful about having a beard. These days I don’t think doing either is as big of a deal. Getting there took people that were willing to take the earful in stride, an internal dialog saying something like “no thanks, I’ll just keep wearing my non-white shirt” without turning it into a federal case. I don’t know whether making an event out of it gets us there quicker or not. For instance, Movember shined a light on a silly BYU rule even though the event was growing a mustache, something entirely within the bounds of BYU’s rules. Still it gave people the opportunity to examine the rule and determine whether or not it was merited. There aren’t any rules against wearing a cross, but that’s what came to mind.
I appreciate the nice discussion that has taken place here. Very rational even though there are different opinions being expressed. I have a nice leather bound bible with a cross design on the front. I think I will start bringing it to church. It seems to me that doing so can help to ever so slightly adjust expectations yet not be obtrusive or showy in any way. We reason all the time that if people who think differently leave the church then that will make it all the more of an echo chamber for the hardliners that remain. How is this different if we remain in the church but remain silent? I am not advocating demonstrations or anything and I know the decorum of proper time and place. I will just sit quietly with my family and my little bible.
Do I get bonus points because it is NIV?
Roy wrote:I appreciate the nice discussion that has taken place here. Very rational even though there are different opinions being expressed.
I have a nice leather bound bible with a cross design on the front. I think I will start bringing it to church. It seems to me that doing so can help to ever so slightly adjust expectations yet not be obtrusive or showy in any way. We reason all the time that if people who think differently leave the church then that will make it all the more of an echo chamber for the hardliners that remain. How is this different if we remain in the church but remain silent? I am not advocating demonstrations or anything and I know the decorum of proper time and place. I will just sit quietly with my family and my little bible.
Do I get bonus points because it is NIV?
Most definitely, triple bonus if you read from it in SS.
I agree with Roy – Great civil discussion everyone. After processing all the thoughts given, I have decided on a middle way approach. I will begin wearing a cross now. I won’t do it overtly, but I will add it respectfully to my attire. My reasons for this are..
1. Like Roy, the idea of gently nudging the conversation is wisest. Thanks to DB’s work, I have supportive images of early Saints to point to.
2. I want our religion to grow, to embrace progressions, and have faith not fear in differences.
3. Joseph Smith encouraged respect and support of other denominations.
Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith pg. 313.
Quote:If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a “Mormon” I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of Roman Catholics, or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak too defend themselves.
I have chosen not to wear one on the 16th. I believe any hint of an organized effort of anything will create one more barrier. We don’t need one more barrier. We need to find ways to unbrick the walls that separate us before we build anymore.
It’s a great idea DB, thanks for instructing us on the history and inviting us to inch the tent of our orthodoxy just an inch. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
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