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I should probably just let this thought pass but I wanted to get a little feedback. I have heard a comparison of exclusive priesthood authority to Dumbo’s feather, the church is Dumbo. I don’t know why this crossed my mind today, but I thought even if you do see the priesthood as Dumbo’s feather – can you see that Dumbo does fly?
I don’t know how to express the light bulb moment, I’m sure it gets lost in translation. Any thoughts?
I’ve made that comparison in the past but it was more along the lines of Dumbo being the PH holder (not the church) and the feather being something that helped Dumbo gain confidence. Does the analogy have to be disparaging of Dumbo by default? When I’ve made that comparison I wasn’t trying to tear down Dumbo that needed a feather or say anything negative at all about Dumbo.
Can it be a good analogy for transitioning to stage 4? Someone once needed something external to self to allow them to walk in confidence before god, now they find that confidence within.
Now you’ve got me wondering. Does the analogy create a good guy and a bad guy? I guess there’s the implication that Dumbo without feather is better off than Dumbo with feather but it only becomes an issue once you find yourself falling and you lose your grip on the feather – outside of that moment, as you say, flying is flying.
Where the analogy breaks down for me is that in the story the mouse was in on the ruse. The mouse knew it was all a “lie” to help Dumbo overcome a weakness. IMO that doesn’t carry over to the realm of faith transitions. In the realm of faith transitions the mouse is holding onto his feather for dear life because that’s what’s worked for him, it’s all he knows. The mouse teaches Dumbo to do the same because the feather is absolutely required in the mind of the mouse. There is no guile.
The analogy works well as a story, as a lesson, as an analogy and if presented that way and a good lesson on faith. It does not work for the poor sap who climbs on his roof with a feather, and by the power of the Melchizedek priesthood…jumps off the roof expecting literal flight from a feather or from faith or from priesthood. That is just never going to work…just like the physics of an elephant will never fly from ears.
There are stories, and then there is real life.
Another question…are the papyri scrolls like the feather, and Joseph Smith like Dumbo? He does produce the BoA, after all…right?
Here is another “feather”… Quote:I am being tested
If we believe stuff happening to us is a test of some sort we will be graded on, it can really make us fight through “the test”.
Religion gives us a lot of things our brains can use for good. Regardless of the reality of it.
With all these “feathers” we use….why would anyone expect to find anything when they dig for nephite relics?
I feel like I only got part of the story. Orson, in your analogy where the church is Dumbo and the PH is the feather, who plays the part of Timothy Q. Mouse? Did god give Dumbo the feather? Did Dumbo give himself the feather? Some other alternative?
People tend to do emotional things for rational reasons – even when some of the reasons (or most or all of them) aren’t rational to others. Give people rational reasons to do what they already want to do, and leadership often follows. NOT to turn this thread political, but our most recent presidential election proves that in spades.
nibbler wrote:
I feel like I only got part of the story.Orson, in your analogy where the church is Dumbo and the PH is the feather, who plays the part of Timothy Q. Mouse? Did god give Dumbo the feather? Did Dumbo give himself the feather? Some other alternative?
I’m not sure where I was trying to go with this. I don’t think it matters where the feather came from, the mouse giving it works fine. If it represents authority then it may be given by God. The mouse may be represented by our inner voice, an external authority, or even the authentic spirit of God. The feather is a seed of faith, or evidence of both faith and God’s blessing – “authority.”
The simple point is Dumbo couldn’t fly without the feather, that was the reality. Obviously later on he learned that he could fly “on his own”, but until his faith transitioned the feather was required, it was the catalyst for faith. Without real faith Dumbo was a rock.
I see a similarity to Joseph translating the plates. The story we have is he started out with the Nephite interpreters, then he learned to use his old seer stone, then he learned to receive revelation without the aid of any instrument. I know I’m “out there” I love Elder Poelman’s original 1984 talk, but I’d call this story a model and we may learn to stand as independent children of God – ironically to glorify God we must gain our full independence.
By “bad analogy” I was only thinking that at first glance people may dismiss too much, with the idea that Dumbo didn’t really need the feather. It is a good analogy when you see the full story and stress the necessity of faith. Here is where Heber’s point fits: Only faith in truth works. I may believe something ridiculous and act on it …and get myself killed. Physically or spiritually. When we try to stretch the elastic too far it will snap. I believe learning the boundaries is another mission for us in life, even though some will say the elastic is only limited by our faith — I call bull-oney.
I’m okay with almost anything that actually helps people soar. Orson wrote:
The simple point is Dumbo couldn’t fly without the feather, that was the reality. Obviously later on he learned that he could fly “on his own”, but until his faith transitioned the feather was required, it was the catalyst for faith. Without real faith Dumbo was a rock.I see a similarity to Joseph translating the plates. The story we have is he started out with the Nephite interpreters, then he learned to use his old seer stone, then he learned to receive revelation without the aid of any instrument.
If the feather is literal belief then I tie this back to fowler’s stages of faith. It is developmentally appropriate to believe literally. Many people need that at least in some stage of their lives. It may be a necessary pre-requisite that must be lived through before one can come to conjunctive faith.
For this reason I don’t make a point of telling my kids that bible stories and miracles might not be literal. I let them direct the level of conversation that they may be ready for. When they ask me religious questions I tend to respond with some variation of “some people think X, and other people think y.” I especially love it when my child then proposes a third theory of their very own.
If Dumbo’s feather is like a particular man holding the priesthood, I do believe that “holding the priesthood” tends to give men a purpose to become more involved and responsible in their families.
Roy wrote:
It is developmentally appropriate to believe literally.
Roy wrote:
If Dumbo’s feather is like a particular man holding the priesthood, I do believe that “holding the priesthood” tends to give men a purpose to become more involved and responsible in their families.
Good point. The danger, of course, is…they use the feather wrong because they understand it wrong, and can lead to abuse of power because of it.
I think my thoughts today are related to this topic so I will post here. I was reading from the April Ensign “The Power of God” and the following is how it came off the page and excited my soul (food for thought only, feel free to compare with original – main substitution is Love in place of priesthood). This is an example of how I feel the spirit sing to me during study or church meetings: Quote:What is the doctrine of the priesthood? It is that God, our Eternal Father enjoys His high status of glory and perfection and power because His faith is perfect and His Love is unlimited.
It is that Love is the very name of the power of God, and that if we are to become like Him, we must receive and exercise His Love or power as He exercises it. . . .
It is that we have power, by faith, to govern and control all things, both temporal and spiritual; to work miracles and perfect lives; to stand in the presence of God and be like Him because we have gained His faith, His perfections, and His power, or in other words the fullness of His Love.
This, then, is the doctrine of God’s Love, than which there neither is nor can be anything greater. This is the power we can gain through faith and righteousness. . . .
Truly there is a power in Charity – a power which we seek to acquire to use, a power which we devoutly pray may rest upon us and upon our posterity forever.
Any questions go read Moroni 7. As Heber C. Kimball might say: “The cat is out of the bag”
Orson your interpretation reminds me of chunks of Lectures on Faith. I read it when I was about 20 and felt so much of what you wrote here. Like you I was elated. All that we have or that will be is empowered by Love. Love a fully sustainable, non gender, nor race or age limited power.
I have copied and pasted your version for my files.
Orson, I like your version much better. The idea of power and seeking it is a little lost on me. I’m not sure what I am seeking. Should I want power? Even by love and charity?
Is the feather going to give me real powers or just imaginations that life the soul…only to be dashed by life’s reality that we cannot control things we cannot control? Can I have faith in these kinds of feathers, which seemingly require me to explain away the realities as they come, only after-the-fact when the feather didn’t help me fly?
In the article:
Quote:It is that we have power, by faith, to govern and control all things, both temporal and spiritual; to work miracles and perfect lives; to stand in the presence of God and be like Him because we have gained His faith, His perfections, and His power, or in other words the fulness of His priesthood.
Are we to govern and control, through love or priesthood or anything?
I like how you put things in your quote. It is more meaningful to me. I’m hoping the light you are seeing can help you teach me a little so I can see it better myself. Do you believe there is real power you are finding for your life?
My thoughts on the feather thing align with what Roy was saying on the other page. Roy wrote:
If the feather is literal belief then I tie this back to fowler’s stages of faith. It is developmentally appropriate to believe literally. Many people need that at least in some stage of their lives. It may be a necessary pre-requisite that must be lived through before one can come to conjunctive faith.
I don’t know where I fall on the whole love thing. This isn’t me singing, this is a serious question, what is love? Context is important for understanding why I ask this and I’m not sure how to phrase things without getting into a lengthy story but one person’s expression of love can be viewed as abusive by someone else. There are exceptions to any rule but I ask… is love another feather? If so, another feather that prepares us for what?
Quote:enjoys His high status of glory and perfection and power
Quote:to govern and control all things, both temporal and spiritual;
Quote:to …perfect lives;
Quote:a power which we seek to acquire to use
To me these phrases create a dark imagery. Context is important and in your context seeking and using power really means being charitable towards others, right? That’s a good thing. It’s just that certain words in those phrases rub me wrong… but I suppose we only ever apply those sorts of words and phrases to deity and view them as something beyond our mortal grasp so we always have an ideal to strive for… but (another but) if god has the quality of governing and controlling all things and we’re aspiring to be like god does this not idealize governing and controlling things… as a for instance.
Thank you all for your comments, they help me see from a new perspective, I love and crave that. Heber13 wrote:
The idea of power and seeking it is a little lost on me. I’m not sure what I am seeking. Should I want power? Even by love and charity?I see where you are coming from, I have had similar thoughts. To me love is the answer, it is the anti-power power. The power we should not crave is that which enhances our own status and ability at the expense of others. The power I see growing out of love is that which will elevate all others, it first seeks the good of mankind, it is about giving over receiving. The benefit to us is the inevitable overflow that comes back our direction as the world becomes a richer place.
Quote:
Is the feather going to give me real powers or just imaginations that life the soul…only to be dashed by life’s reality that we cannot control things we cannot control? Can I have faith in these kinds of feathers, which seemingly require me to explain away the realities as they come, only after-the-fact when the feather didn’t help me fly?
Mortality is a difficult and complex experience. I believe it is all for our good and education in the end, or can be when we learn from it. Yes we must be willing to recognize what faith is properly placed and what is superstition.
Quote:Are we to govern and control, through love or priesthood or anything?
I see the flaw in the wording, the projection of intent. For me it falls back on my definition of love. If we want power for our personal gain we have lost. No, we are not to govern for our personal will, we are to support the mission of love in lifting humanity, this is the “governing” or the “power” that will transform or exalt human kind. As we learn to exercise our “own” power in love we are really opening a door of opportunity, an example, to let others into the chambers of God – to help them experience the power of God. Force is such a feeble thing, he who hath eyes let him see. MLK, Gandhi, the others – they saw.Real power? Yes the way I see it, far more powerful than hate or fear or greed etc. I have been “studying” the topic for years and I do see power, you may say a synergy among human kind.
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