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I note that the church has started pushing a “British” pageant and is busy waving the Union Jack at it. Talk about bad timing! Why are they pushing this?
This may go down very well in England, but its popularity in the Republic of Ireland is demonstrated in low conversion figures there. In Scotland, and Wales, fewer and fewer people consider themselves British. in fact, there is a referendum on Scottish independence next year. The Scottish Government is pro-independence, a late Mormon member of it was pro-independence, and the previous Welsh government contained nationalist members.
In Northern Ireland and some parts of Scotland, waving the union jack is associated with loyalism and protestant supermacism. It is refered to as the “Butcher’s Apron” in some places.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/240991-almost-two-thirds-of-scotlands-residents-are-scottish-only/
Quote:Almost two thirds of Scotland’s residents consider their nationality to be
Scottish only.The 2011 Census shows 62.4% of respondents feel they are Scottish only, while 8.4% think they are British only.
The results also show 18.3% consider themselves both Scottish and British, with 1.9% saying they are Scottish and another nationality.
As usual, it seems the church is decades out of date… whether it’s on British identity, sexuality, women’s issues, the mass media, clothing or umpteen other things…
[img]http://c0027112.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/42253_fullsize.jpg [/img] Very insightful. I think sometimes the church is a bit tone deaf on things like this. I think the big Facebook push might similarly backfire – it’ll result in lots of LDS folks being un-friended by their friends who don’t like being preached to on FB. I honestly think it’s intentional on the part of the church, more like cack handed. Like women praying in GC. They could do it all along, but no one bothered to point this out supposedly!
Interesting insights SamBee. I’d chalk it down to ignorance rather than intent to offend. As a ‘Saeson’ (as the welsh call the English… From the old word “Saxon”) I think even most English people don’t realise it’s offensive. I think it’s a mirror of the OTT right wing patriotism that is so pervasive in the US. It just looks silly over here. Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Tapatalk
I think the LDS is behind the times on many things. We’re possibly reaching the 60s + 70s, but we’re not in the 10s yet.
Church handling of sexuality (not just gays), race and gender are
behind, and this whole British thing strikes me as gauche. Do they
preach it in Belfast for example? If so, they’re only going to convert the loyalist/unionist elements. A union jack has a very different meaning in different parts of the UK, in Northern Ireland it’s practically a hate symbol, in Scotland less dubious but not for everyone, and in London it’s inocuous. In Dublin it’s a the flag of a completely different state.
Many large corporations face similar problems of multiculturalism. Although the church is nearly worldwide, it is still centrally controlled from a culturally homogenious headquarters. In some ways American Inter-Mountain Western Culture is confused with gospel culture. This is sad and I believe the highest leadership doesn’t promote this idea, but getting the message to the rank and file is complicated.
Roy wrote:Many large corporations face similar problems of multiculturalism. Although the church is nearly worldwide, it is still centrally controlled from a culturally homogenious headquarters.
In some ways American Inter-Mountain Western Culture is confused with gospel culture. This is sad and I believe the highest leadership doesn’t promote this idea, but getting the message to the rank and file is complicated.
I totally agree with you. The church lauds its multiculturalism in some ways, yet few in the hierarchy are culturally sensitive to those outside the “Utah” (or inter-mounain western as you call it) culture. It even pervades the handbooks, especially when referring to activities and things like Scouting.
DarkJedi wrote:I totally agree with you. The church lauds its multiculturalism in some ways, yet few in the hierarchy are culturally sensitive to those outside the “Utah” (or inter-mounain western as you call it) culture. It even pervades the handbooks, especially when referring to activities and things like Scouting.
I admit that some Mormon concepts are quite foreign to American ways, but the mormon ideas that get buttressed by American ways are the one’s that get the most play IMO.
We have always been an American religion. In the early days the stories of a restoration and Zion were intermingled with the promise of a new life and open spaces. The gathering seemed at different times to be part “flee from Babylon” and part land speculation/management.
We now send out our missionaries in a uniform so western/American that rumors have them working for the CIA.
This can be a double edged sword as the LDS missionary effort could ebb and flow with public perception of the U.S.A.
I believe that many things are changing in the church but I believe that the pace of change on this multiculturalism will be even slower than in other areas of progress for the following reasons:
1) Many elements of church culture are seen as the gospel way. We often don’t see how much of the church culture also represents western inter-mountain culture. I remember asking my SIL if the church would still be true if BY had settled in Idaho Falls. She responded that it would be different. “Different enough that it would no longer be true?” I pressed. She didn’t have an answer.
2) That the heirarchy seems self perpetuating. Those that are called as apostles today serve life terms and those that are called seem to be known to those already called.
Sorry if this is a bit of a thread jack Sambee. I just see this as a broader almost imperialist issue.
I think this will continue to decrease as the very top leadership continues to diversify – and that is happening. We will have a South American apostle soon (who probably will be fairly conservative, ironically), and I think that is just the beginning of what we will see in the next 20 years or so. I think we will lose nearly half of the Q12/FP in that time period, for example. Old-Timer wrote:I think this will continue to decrease as the very top leadership continues to diversify – and that is happening. We will have a South American apostle soon (who probably will be fairly conservative, ironically), and I think that is just the beginning of what we will see in the next 20 years or so. I think we will lose nearly half of the Q12/FP in that time period, for example.
I agree with you Ray. But the effect of multiculturalism will be limited as long as the new apostle has bought into Mormon American assumptions. A chief advantage of diversity is to challenge our assumptions – just putting someone in with different skin color doesn’t accomplish this. OTOH I can see where the church would want to be cautious on this. Nobody wants a scandal involving an apostle. Safer to choose a “company man” for lack of a better term.
I want a Sister Okazaki. She knew how to push – but not so far as to make the establishment nervous. Her skin color, while being a big part of her experiences, is secondary to her value to multiculturalism.
Come to think of it. The church could get much value out of having SS or EQ/RS study her writings for a year.
I think the follow the leader mentality doesn’t help. It leads to stagnation and lazy thinking. Because of this, many church members are not aware of what is happening around them. As a result, they are often trapped in official narratives (po-mo jargon!) particularly about politics, history, identity etc. The unon jack waving is an example of this. It is what is to be seen on the BBC, but it is not quite what is happening on the ground in the UK.
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