Basics of the church. What do you believe.

[Anonymous]

Ilovechrist77 wrote:

I haven’t been on this forum for quite a while, but I will share what my beliefs are.

Good to see you again :wave:

Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous]

I believe in a loving HF/Heavenly Parents. I like the idea of being literal children of divinity as it helps to define the relationship that I imagine having with them.

I love the imagry of God loving me/us so much that He condescended to be born a lowly mortal, to live suffer and die that I/we may return to him. I hope for this to be true. For ease of communication I call this idea “Jesus.”

I am committed to eternal families in some fashion. I believe that families matter and that if anything endures forever it should be relationships.

amateurparent wrote:

Specifically, belief in BOM, JS, and modern prophecy.

I believe in the BOM as “Wisdom Literature.” I believe it to be an amalgamation of 19th century sources with the spark of divine inspiration holding it together.

I believe JS was a prophet, in that he was a charismatic leader that started a movement. Many of the things he brought forward were good and inspirational – even revolutionary. He also had some big errors and personal flaws similar to OT prophets.

I believe in prophecy of all ages as the ability to channel the divine and the ultimate in human potential. To have a compelling “vision” or “dream” of how things could be and should be that has the power to inspire others. (I also take Gahndi, Mother Teresa, MLK, Pope Francis, and many others as prophets under similar criteria)

I believe God uses all these things to help us to become our ideal selves and to draw closer to him.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

Good questions.

1) Scripture: Holy writings of any religion, these are the texts which various religious traditions consider to be sacred, or central to their religious tradition. Many religions and spiritual movements believe that their sacred texts are divinely or supernaturally revealed or inspired. [Wiki has an acceptable definition to me]

Therefore, these fit into the definition of scripture: Bible, Torah, Qur’an, Bhagavad Gita, Diamond Sutra/Heart Sutra/Lotus Sutra, and LDS scriptures.

As I read these scriptural texts, they raise my mind to a spiritual level. They are good books.

Quote:

D&C 109:7 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom, seek learning even by study and also by faith;

Most scripture was orally passed on before it was ever written down. That means others are also involved in the process of the end result of what we have as scripture today. It doesn’t make it invalid…it’s just the historic reality of how we have our scriptures today, so I keep that in mind…but still believe in scripture as holy writings.

2) Prophet: one sent by God to lead people and teach them their religious beliefs

Think of Samuel the Lamanite…get’s called by God…delivers a message people need to hear. After that…not sure what happened to him, don’t know a lot about his personal life or if he ever made mistakes or ever changed his faith as he learned more…but he was a prophet to deliver what God told him to deliver.

We scrutinize Joseph Smith, as it seems all people reject their own prophets and believe the legendary and ancient prophets…because their stories have been polished to make it easy to believe in the past prophets. When we are too close to them and see their humanity, it can challenge our hope for this hero of a prophet that has no flaws, the prophet we want to believe in. But I just try to accept prophets for what they are.

As others have said above, all the words of all prophets come through the mind of that prophet…how they understand what they should do. They are not blank pages that God writes in their minds the exact words to say. The prophets are trying to teach, just like as parents we teach our kids. Imperfectly, but with good intentions.

3) True: There are all kinds of threads on this topic. I won’t go into a lot of it, but basically…true is like “true north”. Since the church points me in a good direction, it is true. Since the scriptures teach me gospel principles, they are true (even the BoA). Since Thomas S Monson teaches me gospel principles, he is a true prophet. I don’t believe the church is correct with taking some stands against gay marriage, so that teaching is not true. But it doesn’t make the church untrue for me, because not all teachings have to be true for the church to be true. Just the ones I pick from the buffet that impact my life.

I have tried for years to find proof the church is false. I cannot prove it to my mind. Because most of the things that bother me are just the interpretations and the programs and the things people say…they aren’t the church in and of itself. I continue to find things that bother me are mostly about how I didn’t understand the gospel meaning behind it (because I was taught the milk). My dissonance doesn’t require accepting something troublesome to be false. I just need further light and knowledge to understand it on other levels.

That’s what I believe.

1. I agree that scripture is sacred/holy texts of various religions and belief systems. There certainly are things that are common to all of them (such as “love your neighbor”). This would include the teachings of Confucius and Buddha, of course, and as you mentioned, oral traditions of other belief systems (such as those of many African religions). To me scripture may also include profound truths from other writings as well, including Handel’s Messiah, some of the works of Charles Dickens, and even Obi Wan’s “point of view” statement. I suppose that makes my view of scripture a bit broader than yours. At the same time, though, I don’t believe every word spoken at GC or in the Ensign is scripture. I recognize there seems to be a contradiction there, but I can’t explain how I reconcile it other than the way I feel when I hear what I consider scripture.

2. I agree with your definition. A prophet to me is an inspired teacher. Joseph Smith fits that description as do those found in the scriptures. There are others who also fit the description. As asides, I believe it is easy to confuse the words “prophet” and “prophecy” and the two are not necessarily the same. Likewise, while I believe Pres. Monson is an inspired teacher, I also believe many others are inspired, including people within my own ward and people here. From an LDS point of view, I think prophet also denotes the authorized leader of the church and I recognize Pres. Monson as that, just as I recognize the pope as leader of the Catholic church. We also sustain Pres. Monson as seer and revelator – duties separate from prophet, and also sometimes confused among the membership.

3. I have a much harder time with “true” and don’t have a definition that fits. Yours is OK, but doesn’t really work for me, except in the negative as the opposite of false. I can’t prove the church false, either – but then again I think I would be hard pressed to find any mainstream (and even less mainstream) church “false.” I think as long as they teach basic gospel principles and/or what I recognize as universal truths (for example “love your neighbor”) they are true. In that respect I can say the church is true (although I don’t ever say that), but I could then also say that almost all Christian churches and many non-Christian (for example Islam, Buddhism, or Hinduism) religions are also true. I’m not sure the LDS church is “more true” than others.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t comment on JS and modern prophets. I’ll keep this one quick.

I believe that people don’t sustain someone because they are a prophet, someone is a prophet because people sustain them.

[Anonymous]

I am a believer, in what I have chosen to believe. I choose to believe within a Mormon paradigm.

I believe deeply in respecting others’ right to believe differently than I do.

[Anonymous]

I am agnostic about much of it now. I can’t deny the spiritual experiences I had that encouraged me to the join the church, in direct answer to a question I asked about its truthfulness. At the same time, a lot of it doesn’t add up. As years have passed, I have also felt there may have been reasons I got that “answer” that are independent of truth confirmation.

I do like the Book of Mormon, whether true or not, it has some good nuggets and I have felt spiritual reading it. I like it better than the Bible really, and the BoM has more credibility than the Bible in my view, which is a collection of writings that people decided to put together. At least the source of the BoM is one person who can be assessed for direct communication with God.

D&C — not sure, again agnostic. God — yes, belief there — Christ — I like the theology and hope for its truthfulness. Temples — not a big fan, and agnostic about them. I think they can use up a lot of time — and I do see them as carrots rather than something important to me. Joseph Smith as a prophet? I think he had a gift. People really did believe him, and I suspect he spoke well and carried the Spirit, which convinced people. Was he a prophet? Not sure — the Fannie Alger thing really bugs me, and I have often felt plural marriage was damage control after he and Fannie had their physical relationship.

[Anonymous]

I actually started writing this last month, trying to define some of my thoughts and beliefs. I know that this will be changing and I may look back at in a year from now and have totally different opinions. But you asked for it, so here goes;

I believe in God.

To “define God” is to pigeon hole the eternal. So I won’t try that. The infinite cannot be fully described with finite words. The eternal cannot be defined with finite words.

Also a declaration of faith does not exclude the presence of doubt.

The way i see it, all religious history has been an opinion on the nature of God. All scriptural text then, are the writings and musings of men on the nature of God.

Reading the Bible from cover to cover has restored some of my faith in the BoM. I looked, a lot like others, at the BoM as the literal perfect word, and historical to a tee. Post faith crisis and evolving faith paradigm, after reading the Bible and truly realizing that there is so much wisdom mixed in with history, mixed in with mundane pointless writing, mixed in with opinions; I realized that the BoM was just as true as the Bible.

Scripture; partially man’s feeble attempt at defining God, partially a collection of century’s of wisdom, partially a textbook on living good lives.

I do not fully comprehend God and allow others to make statements and opinions to the same.

I dropped a lot of assumptions, which were a hindrance to my faith, as I had assumed a black and white mentality.

Wondering and questioning has been a part of my faith from the beginning and through its evolution, to no longer question would be to assume that I now know all. Or that there is nothing more to be taught on the subject.

Truth is subjective, and truth is changeable.

Prophecy; You and I are as much open to receive as anyone else, including President Monson. I acquiesce to President Monson and sustain him as the prophet of the church to lead and guide it. It is an organization that I belong to. The Prophet, his counselors, the 12, other leaders of the church, spend way more time and dedication and service to the church and the Lord than I do , therefore I have no problem acquiescing to them as spiritual leaders prophets, seers, and revelators. They are also men, and I have no problem disagreeing with and in circumstances not following their council. See my post on Bednars visit. Having said that, I understand the paradox of having leaders to look to when the truth is inside each of us individually. I too see through a glass darkly, and my glasses might be a little different tint than yours.

Prophet; four definitions, one modern, one ancient, one organizational, and one spiritual. And sometimes they’re all mixed up together. Just as JS was a prophet, Mohammed was, and just as not everything JS said was gospel, certainly not everything M said was either. Having said that, I don’t follow M’s words as much as JS’s and Monsons etc. They’ve all had good nuggets along the way, from Moses to Luther, DaVinci to Hawking, JS to pope Francis, Lao Tsu to me, everyone else to all of you. BY said that we claim all the truth as our own, JS said it better; One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may. And lastly from LT, The words of truth are always paradoxical.

Then I say; don’t seek the truth, let go of your assumptions, and the truth will flow to you.

[Anonymous]

I am agnostic about all of it. I never got the spiritual confirmations I so sought after in my youth, and so I am left completely on my own to decide what I want to believe. That situation has led me to prefer not thinking about religion now days, but I still pop in here (and some Mormon blogs) every now and then to read. I feel like there is no way to get at the capital T-Truth, and God isn’t giving me any answers. However, my husband doesn’t like to talk about my issues with the church, and he believes it all to some degree (even though there is a lot he doesn’t do, so not TBM). So we go to church each week and he and I teach primary together. Lots of cog. dis. going on for me each week. I don’t want to be too specific but I am in a position where I will need to appear TBM (as I’m sure I do) for the next few years, so I’ll do that, but once that period is over I may try to be more authentic to myself.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

Yours is OK, but doesn’t really work for me, except in the negative as the opposite of false. I can’t prove the church false, either – but then again I think I would be hard pressed to find any mainstream (and even less mainstream) church “false.” I think as long as they teach basic gospel principles and/or what I recognize as universal truths (for example “love your neighbor”) they are true. In that respect I can say the church is true (although I don’t ever say that), but I could then also say that almost all Christian churches and many non-Christian (for example Islam, Buddhism, or Hinduism) religions are also true. I’m not sure the LDS church is “more true” than others.

I like how you worded that. I do think all churches have truth in them. I think church leaders would agree with that too. From my perspective, the LDS church is “more true” TO ME than others. I have no idea how to tell what is true for others.

I have dabbled with some other religions. They are good too. None of them have authority to ordain my son a deacon and let my son pass the sacrament. But I had that authority to ordain my son last week, and we both passed the sacrament together, and it was beautiful. There was truth to what we did.

[Anonymous]

My FC and subsequent faith transition is still relatively fresh, and I’ve been taking my time redefining my beliefs. I’m at the stage now where the uncertainty isn’t the dark pit of despair that it was before. I now find it a wide open door with a dozen possibilities, and it’s almost exciting in a way to think up all the possible “truths” that there may be. I know me, and I know that my beliefs will continue to change and grow as they will for the rest of my life, and to me, this is a wonderful thing; I became stagnant and inactive in the church prior to my FC because of how black and white and seemingly unchanging it was. Anyway, I digress.

I believe Joseph Smith believed, at least in part, that he was divinely called. I believe he may have had some inspiration, and whatever that inspiration was or where it came from, I’m not sure. I believe he has been built up and revered so much in the Church that he has become more a legend than being recognized as just another man. But I believe that even if much of him is fictional legend, parts of his life and theories can still be used by many Mormons in a good way.

I believe the BoM has many great truths in it, and that it can be seen, indeed, as “another testament of Jesus Christ.” I believe that even in works of fiction, there is magnificent truth, and just because something might be fictional doesn’t mean it can’t be of value and sincere meaning. And because of that, I don’t spare much thought on how much of it is “true” or not, although I do suspect a lot of it was part the product of its time, part a brilliant imagination, and maybe just a bit of inspiration.

I believe that there are forces in this world that are far beyond our mortal comprehension or measurements, and that we as living individuals will never truly understand. I believe that those forces can aid in revelation and inspiration and, maybe, even prophecy.

I believe the leaders of the Church can be just as inspired as any of the regular, everyday Church members.

I believe there is something after this life, and I also believe it’s a little different for everyone. One belief I’ve been thinking about is the idea that we create our own afterlife based on our beliefs while living; much like how we create our own living realities.

I believe that there is a higher, divine power, which some people call God. I don’t believe He/She helps us find our car keys. But I do believe God is all-knowing, and that, being all-knowing, He/She has likely given us the tools we need to find our car keys on our own.

And I believe that there is good in the Church. That for many people, the Church is their “one true Church.” I believe that any God I believe in knows that some people need a true Church. And some people need a FC and faith transition to find their own way.

I’m still trying to figure out what I believe about Jesus Christ (real person, or a legend based on a real person). I don’t know what I believe about the priesthood, and I’m reserving judgement on the temple until I go through the initiatory and endowment for the first time next month before my mission.

I don’t think I’ll ever “stop” being part of the LDS Church. It is my culture, and it is the Church that my family was meant to be a part of in the grand scheme of things, even if I’m not sure why. There have been several hard-to-explain experiences in my life and the collective life of my families that keep me firmly bound to the belief in a higher power and the goodness that can come from the Church.

[Anonymous]

I believe in God and life-after-death but my guess is that they are quite a bit different from the way the Church claims. I definitely don’t believe that revelation is the best way to know the truth, in fact to me it looks like depending so much on supposed revelation has clearly proven to be an unreliable way to try to answer questions very well compared to existing evidence and real-life experiences. I believe that Church leaders are basically just ordinary men without any special authority, knowledge, or approval from God. Basically I don’t trust Church leaders, LDS scriptures, dogmatic answers, etc. anymore and don’t see why I should be expected to based on their overall track record so far.

[Anonymous]

There is a lot I am uncertain about, but I believe my experiences in the church, both positive and negative, have helped me grow and learn a lot about myself. The only thing I feel like I know for sure is that life does not end in death, and I have felt what I believe to be God’s love for me on occasion, although rarely. I believe it is reasonable that Joseph Smith may have had some kind of remarkable vision, but how much of the church, BOM, and everything else were from God, I just do not know. I honestly struggle to believe a lot of what he said and did were actually of God, and I feel the same way about leaders today. I’ve tried to rebuild and reconstruct my faith, but it is becoming harder for me at this point. It is harder to go to church than it ever was before, because of the cognitive dissonance. If I am supposed to stay, then I hope things begin to make sense sooner than later. Let’s just say that there is a lot more that I disbelieve about the church than I believe right now, but I am open to the fact that this may change. If God is concerned with me and wants me to return with Him or Her after I die, I really just want to be on the path that will help me do that, but I am unsure of what that path is in this stage of my life. Basically, I am a great big question mark.

[Anonymous]

RiverSong14 wrote:

Let’s just say that there is a lot more that I disbelieve about the church than I believe right now, but I am open to the fact that this may change.

I think this is a very wise approach at any given point in time…being open to realizing it could change because it probably will and you don’t want to burn bridges.

This is why talking to some people can be a risk, because they won’t understand the changes. It is also why going slow before making big changes is advised.

I think there is growth in the idea that at some points in time, we have an insatiable desire to explore and question and doubt…but those aren’t typically stages we stay in our whole lives, those are points in times that are pushing us to enter new phases in life so we don’t get stagnant.

So give yourself permission to doubt.

Quote:

“If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things” – Rene Descartes

Doubting takes more effort than just believing. So when it gets exhausting or uneasy for having so many doubts, we can learn to accept things imperfect as they are (like perhaps we don’t believe the church, or perhaps we do but with caveats)…and we go on with living life until the next phase when we want to revisit things and see if we want to understand things differently from our new vantage point.

[Anonymous]

I have been starting from the ground up lately, which I believe is a good thing. I am hoping my list will get longer and stronger as time goes on.

1. I believe in Jesus Christ, His patience, and His goodness.

2. I really really hope that the temple covenants are from God, because I love the idea of eternal families and especially being sealed to my DH. At this point I can’t believe in the revelation of polygamy and I don’t know that I ever will again, I will not share! The temple stuff is a work in progress for me

3. I believe the prophets are good men (most of them anyway) who receive revelation like I do, but just have really HUGE responsibilities and they make lots of mistakes. I think I can forgive them for this. I believe I am allowed to question what they say and to make my own decisions on these things. Thats a huge change for me.

4. I am not sure about the Book of Mormon yet, I think it could be inspired, but maybe just stories and not actual people??

5. I believe there is an afterlife

6. I don’t believe this life is a test, more of a place to learn. Not sure what yet, but think it maybe has to do with partly receiving bodies, and partly to have experiences that teach us to be kinder, and more loving to others. I would say Christlike, but I believe that for people that don’t believe in Jesus, it would be about kindness.

7. I don’t believe right now that we are the only true church, just a church that I happened to be born into that teaches good principles and taught me to love Jesus Christ.

I am sure there is more I believe, but this is what I thought of right away. I am starting to get a grip on my own beliefs and I am open to them constantly changing as time goes on. I no longer feel like there is a time limit and that I have to make any decisions. I go to church with my family and hear the things I want to hear and tune out the rest. I am also very okay with people not being able to believe any of it which has given me a lot of peace, and I hope to be able to help others going through a FC one day.

[Author]

Posts