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Here is an interesting and I believe, very relevant article about discerning between divine inspiration and our own thoughts. Perhaps we can get a good discussion going on this. http://www.mormontimes.com/article/19392/Be-careful-claiming-inspiration I alternately agree and disagree with Brother Card about many things, but I really like this article. Some of my favorite quotes: Quote:The Spirit is not a genie to be bottled up in print, or repelled by it.
Quote:A claim of inspiration is a claim of authority.
Quote:Inspiration comes into minds that are already filled with a mixture of true and false ideas. Even if we feel that we have received confirmation of a course of action we propose to the Lord, that does not imply that all the ideas we might have attached to that proposal are true doctrine!
Quote:When you propose something to others with words like, “I feel impressed that our course of action should be …” you are effectively cutting off the possibility of receiving good counsel from others.
The big flaw in any talk of inspiration to me is it is so vauge. Was it inspiration or was it not. The article bears this out. I say what value is it if you have to constantly be second guessing if you are discerning the spirit correctly. It pains me all the times I wanted so bad to get some direction and tried to apply inspiration to every little thought and action. Maybe I tried to hard I do not know. I just know that inspiration is more likely a subconscious thought brought on by the evolutionary process and your own experiences. If a hear a noise in the bushes is it inspiration to run or is that instinct and experience. True inspiration or revelation would have to be something that was so obvious and un mistakable and not left to the possibility of coincidence. Maybe some have experienced that unfortunately I have not. What a good article and subject. This has always been complex thing to me as well, especially when it involves others lives. My husband rarely feels like he gets revelation or even inspiration for that matter but on rare ocassion he feels he has. Other times when he thought he was getting strong inspiration (like blessing a sister that she would get completely well soon and live a long life and then got sicker and died the following week); it totally freaked him out. I do often wonder how much of my inspiration is just wishful thinking rather than from God. But, I like what card said about feeling you get some real knowledge, new insights, and they work out so well. I like the article very much. It’s refreshing to hear someone describe our thinking processes as they really are — sometimes indistinguishable from thoughts planted from heaven. I like how he distinguishes inspiration (thoughts from sources that are unclear — whether our own, or whether from God) and revelation — which is more clearly from God. However, I disagree with his statement that always getting help through revelation robs us of agency. I have had direct revelation, I believe, and it still preserves agency. Just because I had had revelation doesn’t remove agency at all.
Here is an example — I once had an experience shortly after I’d seriously decided leavin the Church indefinitely (not name-removal, but just not going). Shortly afterwards, I had an experience that I thought was definitely from God.because I was not asking for it — it not only stood at the door and knocked, it came in uninvited and took a seat in my livingroom (I’m speaking figuratively, there was no actual being).
This caused me to continue in activity for quite a while longer, but I eventually could not take the angst any longer and then eventually quit — and was less active for 7 years afterwards. Unfortunately, that whole experience represented my exodus from TBM status, although I returned to it off an on, until I ended up here are year ago….my commitment has been very fragile since that original revelation.
I’m not proud of this necessarily, but I want to illustrate how revelation in one’s life does not compel one to do anything, or compromise agency in any way. It provides a strong motivator, but ultimately, the choice is ours how we respond to revelation….
Thanks so much for sharing your personal experience with us SD. It was a perfect example of the point you were making and caused me to think. SD, I think Card’s operative word was “always”. I don’t think he meant that every instance of revelation robs us of agency; I think he meant that we would lose a degree of agency if we received everything as a result of undeniable revelation – God standing there telling us what to do. There still are people who would hear that and tell God to shove it, but the VAST majority would say, “Yes, sir,” and never consider anything else. For them, there really wouldn’t be a choice. Old-Timer wrote:SD, I think Card’s operative word was “always”. I don’t think he meant that every instance of revelation robs us of agency; I think he meant that we would lose a degree of agency if we received everything as a result of undeniable revelation – God standing there telling us what to do. There still are people who would hear that and tell God to shove it, but the VAST majority would say, “Yes, sir,” and never consider anything else. For them, there really wouldn’t be a choice.
Quite honestly, I think having revelation for everything might compel us to exercise our agency against God’s will more easily. Regularly received revelation would make it commonplace, and easier to ignore.
That’s an interesting idea. My gut instinct is that you might be right about certain personality types (and perhaps more particularly some types that dominate groups like this), but I’ll have to think about it some more. Maybe we are the ones who should be most grateful for a lack of constant revelation. That’s a new thought.
When I first saw in Ray’s summary: “A claim of inspiration is a claim of authority” I thought to myself — “only if you are claiming that inspiration applies to other people.” If I claim I am inspired to eat oatmeal every tuesday morning – that is something that applies only to me, I don’t see how it is a claim of authority in any way. Now if I claimed my inspiration revealed true principles that apply to another individual, or equally to all human kind, that would be a claim of authority – and granted this is the context of the statement in the article.
I really like the tone of the article. To me it departs from so much that we hear in church. It says clearly “these are my personal thoughts, take what you want from them and discard the rest.” It meets my ideal of coming together to share “this is what works for me, this is my experience and my thoughts; maybe you can relate.” I love that! Excellent article!
Old-Timer wrote:That’s an interesting idea. My gut instinct is that you might be right about certain personality types (and perhaps more particularly some types that dominate groups like this), but I’ll have to think about it some more.
Unfortunately, this echoes a recurring thought I’ve had over the years that there is something wrong with me when it comes to activity in the Church. I’ve had many strong spiritual experiences that led me to the Church in the first place, and perhaps that’s the only reason I’m still active, but struggles with activity have plagued me ever since a few years after my mission. Granted, when I speak to my ex-Bishop TBM friend, he acknowledges that some fo the challenges (the early ones that broke the bubble that I haven’t shared in detail on this forum) were extraordinary in their depth, but nonetheless, I wonder at times if I’m just not fit for the kingdom of God as we understand it. It can be a kind of disheartening thought.
Brigham Young once was quoted as saying “God will pull on your very hearstrings and if you can’t stand it you are not fit for the kingdom of God”.
SilentDawning wrote:I wonder at times if I’m just not fit for the kingdom of God as we understand it. It can be a kind of disheartening thought.
I don’t like to hear that kind of talk. By definition you are fit for whatever it is that God intends for you. Maybe a better question would be if the ‘kingdom of God’ is fit for you.
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