Be fruitful and multiply – not a commandment

[Anonymous]

My maternal and paternal grandparents had 35 grandkids (from 6 and 9 children). My wife and I have 6 children (thought we were done with 4, felt strongly we needed to have another one, had individual confirmations months apart that we need to have one more). All of our children are adults – and we have 7 grandkids. Four of our children are married; two are not. I expect we probably will end up with no more than 10 grandkids.

I am fine with that for two main reasons: Our kids are wonderful people, making their own choices according to the dictates of their own consciences, and the current economy (which has been building over the last 40 years) is absolutely brutal on young adults. (That last point is not really a classic discussion point here, so I am fine if it doesn’t get addressed further than this comment.)

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

My maternal and paternal grandparents had 35 grandkids (from 6 and 9 children). My wife and I have 6 children (thought we were done with 4, felt strongly we needed to have another one, had individual confirmations months apart that we need to have one more). All of our children are adults – and we have 7 grandkids. Four of our children are married; two are not. I expect we probably will end up with no more than 10 grandkids.

I’m the oldest of 9 with an 18 year gap from oldest to youngest. Both of my parents are only children who raised themselves as best they could as teenagers.

I remember talking about “birth order” and # of kids with my grandfather a good 20 years ago. He predicted that us 9 kids wouldn’t have a lot of kids. I was in my more literal stage of belief, so I expected to have “merely 6” kids and that my siblings would do similarly.

Now, 3 of my siblings cannot/should not (physical disability) or have determined with thought that they will never have children. For them, the deal-breaker was passing on the mental health concerns to the next generation and raising those kids who are more likely to have mental health differences.

I have 2 (6.5 year gap), my brother has 2 (16 year gap), 1 sister has 3, another has 1 (and my brother is about to go into medical school – which is likely to impact their family planning). 2 of my siblings are married but it is not clear to me what their plans are re family.

Old-Timer wrote:

I am fine with that for two main reasons: Our kids are wonderful people, making their own choices according to the dictates of their own consciences, and the current economy (which has been building over the last 40 years) is absolutely brutal on young adults. (That last point is not really a classic discussion point here, so I am fine if it doesn’t get addressed further than this comment.)

One of my children wants nothing to do with kids or matrimony and has aspired since she was 10 or so to be a “boss-lady & and cat-lady”. I understand the many reasons behind that and feel that thought has been given to the questions. I am fine with this child never giving me grandchildren.

My other child, we hope she won’t end up barefoot and pregnant at 18 (it’s a literal truth/aspiration and I maybe being a bit blunt here). We have a good 10 years to work on this, but only 2 more years of solid foundation time. This child is also beautiful and connective (and wants to be a mother) – so more boys lured in and other options career-wise and educationally available as well.

My husband gets into a topic regularly about how “your own children are the best way to progress” in terms of a catalyst of learning to care for others. The related point he talks about that “if you are an adult (more likely female) and not raising children, you are being selfish”.

– I know understand the religious cultural rule he is sprouting.

– I also strongly disagree with him. If you must make a moral judgement about someone being “selfish”, you really need to understand that individual and the gender and culture they are coming from. “Selfishness” comes about from “what one is entitled to” – and has little to do with the amount of children you have.

[Anonymous]

AmyJ wrote:

My husband gets into a topic regularly about how “your own children are the best way to progress” in terms of a catalyst of learning to care for others. The related point he talks about that “if you are an adult (more likely female) and not raising children, you are being selfish”.

– I know understand the religious cultural rule he is sprouting.

– I also strongly disagree with him. If you must make a moral judgement about someone being “selfish”, you really need to understand that individual and the gender and culture they are coming from. “Selfishness” comes about from “what one is entitled to” – and has little to do with the amount of children you have.

I remember telling family members as a young person that I wanted to have a large family. They told me repeatedly that I better get a good paying job to support that family. I bristled at the idea that having kids should be a luxury of the wealthy. Should only wealthy people be able to fulfill this commandment?

When I was engaged to my wife, we had a conversation about family size and she told me that 6 kids would not be too many. Incidentally, she later told me that I knew that she wanted at least 6 kids. I responded that “6 kids would not be too many” = 6 or less, while “at least 6 kids” = 6 or more. They are not the same!

We now have two living children. After the stillbirth of our third child we would be considered “high risk.” We had intended to have another child even after the stillbirth but I think we were both terrified of going through that again and then the age gap between our living children and a hypothetical additional child kept getting larger.

I think that people have many reasons for having kids and for not having kids and most of them are selfish – in that these decisions are mostly made because of the circumstances, wants, and needs of the individual.

I do think that there is a trend over the last 80 or so years towards self fulfillment and self actualization and away from conformity and following societal expectations. To the degree that conformity to society meant self sacrifice – then I suppose we could make an argument for people today being more selfish. The jury is still out on weather that is a good or a bad thing.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

We now have two living children. After the stillbirth of our third child we would be considered “high risk.” We had intended to have another child even after the stillbirth but I think we were both terrified of going through that again and then the age gap between our living children and a hypothetical additional child kept getting larger.

We spent a long time in child limbo after our eldest was born. We had our second when we were sure we were “ready” and that it was a right choice for us. I gave birth to our 2nd child at home in a rather dramatic way that reinforced for my husband that “we were done” with producing offspring after baby #2. And baby #2 blissfully walked unscathed through a lot of systems that she “broke” by her entrance into the system (and still does to a certain extent).

Roy wrote:

I think that people have many reasons for having kids and for not having kids and most of them are selfish – in that these decisions are mostly made because of the circumstances, wants, and needs of the individual.

I do think that there is a trend over the last 80 or so years towards self fulfillment and self actualization and away from conformity and following societal expectations. To the degree that conformity to society meant self sacrifice – then I suppose we could make an argument for people today being more selfish. The jury is still out on whether that is a good or a bad thing.

My husband doesn’t like that I call him out on the the hypocrisy that “we can be done” and “not be selfish” after 2 kids – but that my sister who chose not to bear children at all (for similar reasons to why we stopped at 2) is in the “selfish” umbrella by default.

I think the decisions are mostly made because of the circumstances and want(s)/need(s) of individuals – that the mother is the obvious fulcrum for a variety of complex calculations of time, talents, and resources. I think we are finally having conversations to support the fathers too – to prepare them for the disappearance of their partner into the hormones & babyland for months (if not years).

I used to think that progress was being made towards “self-fulfillment” and “self-actualization” because the needs/wants of the individuals were becoming more socially sanctioned. Now, I do not feel like I am qualified to “judge righteous judgement” on this question, nor do I feel that I have the proper framework to properly map out the question.

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