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So – I just discovered that I have paid very little in tithing this year. I THOUGHT I had set it up on auto pay with the bank and it was a “fix it and forget it” deal. What I didn’t realize is that the bank set up didn’t go through.
I am now behind in tithing with no way of making it up.
Now I am afraid that Heavenly Father will punish me or did…we recently had a utility shut off (same bank auto pay glitch)…and I need to hurry and confess to the bishop and ask for permission to just skip what I didn’t pay and start fresh.
I’m afraid that he will take my recommend…which is okay b/c I don’t like going to the temple anyway.
If I don’t see the bishop…and I go to the temple (would be out of the norm for me), I would then feel like I was lying my whole way through the session…I’m way too honest of a person and truly cannot tell a lie.
Psycho circus in my mind.
Now…here’s my question…
I’ve been taught that we aren’t punished for sins in this life…consequences may follow…but not necessarily punishment. I’ve been taught that blessings can be withheld…a form of punishment, I guess.
So…how should I handle this??
I hate feeling guilty…is this the Spirit telling me to see the bishop?
ugh.
I hate money.
I honestly am starting to dislike even attending church…and my kids all hate it (really, really hate it). But we go b/c my husband wants to go. We go b/c I want my YM to learn responsibility. We go b/c church is the only place my kids get gospel instruction … I should do better about teaching them myself.
I want a “zen” society … where I can feel “free” to choose my path…and not feel guilty about doing it…or like I am about to bring down the wrath of God. Ya know?
A few thoughts: – Don’t put yourself in a situation where others determine your priorities and actions. It makes no difference what your bishop thinks. If you want to give money to the church and you have to start fresh starting today, then you have two good choices. One is to let the bishop know that this is what you are doing. That’s valid if that makes you comfortable. The other good choice is not to mention it to the bishop at all, and just do it. Tithing is between you and the Lord, as has been stated by the First Presidency. IMO, the bad option is to ask the bishop for permission to start afresh. The church is not responsible for your relationship to God… you are.
– Don’t think of spirituality in terms of avoiding punishments. Think of it as providing “blessings” or what I might call “benefits”. Live your own life in a way to maximize your benefits on all fronts, family, spirituality, career, financial security, relationships, hobbies, activities, etc. Spirituality may be part of what you want for yourself, it’s not so for everyone, but if you want it, go for it. But think of it in terms of what you want to GAIN from it, not what you want to AVOID. Having angst over tithing based on fear that God will punish you is upside down. Give because you want to give… or don’t give at all.
– As for activity in church, or attending the church… if you find it to be worthwhile, then it is good to continue. If you don’t, then it’s not. There’s no reason to put yourself through the wringer. The Church is neither all good, nor all bad. It is a medium for approaching God. If it helps you great. If it doesn’t, that’s fine too.
Quote:Tithing is between you and the Lord, as has been stated by the First Presidency. IMO, the bad option is to ask the bishop for permission to start afresh. The church is not responsible for your relationship to God… you are.
Great point! I completely agree. A few years ago we fell behind in tithing. We skipped about 5 months and then started back up again. We didn’t mention our lapse in payment to anyone in the church until tithing settlement where we just said we were partial payers–that’s it. We didn’t go into explanations or anything, just stated the facts. The next month we had our TR interviews and again stated we had been partial payers–the Bishop just asked us if we had noticed any difference in the months we paid and the months we didn’t (the difference we noticed was really more of an organizational issue and that we were more conscientious of our finances when we did pay–not 100% sure if that’s cause of the tithing or just our general financial situation). Anyway, the Bishop just said that he believed that anytime you get behind in tithing, it’s like other weaknesses in our lives, you just start fresh the next day. He didn’t believe in having people make up the “back tithes” that it’s okay to just start fresh and he also quoted the First Presidency in saying that tithing was between us and the Lord. We were able to keep our TR. Not sure if our experience helps, but thought I’d share it.
1) Memorize what On Own Now said. Spot-on and profound. 2) Honest mistakes are honest mistakes. There is no need whatsoever to “make up” payments that can’t be paid.
Think of a convert who is baptized in September. No reasonable person would insist that she pay tithing for the first eight months of the year. This is the same situation, in principle. If I was your Bishop, there is no way I would tell you that you are “behind in your tithing”. Some would; many wouldn’t; I absolutely would not.
3) Honest mistakes are not sins and, thus, do not require confession or repentance in the same way that intentional actions do – and there is nothing in our theology that says people are punished by God for honest mistakes. Read our 2nd Article of Faith. It says we are punished only for our own sins – and your situation is NOT sin.
4) Since honest mistakes do not require confession, there is no need to see a Bishop about this situation. Now that you are aware of this, start paying tithing and leave it at that. I can’t say that strongly enough. You do not need to “confess” this or speak with your Bishop about it, unless it is important to you that you do so. Just realize that if you do talk with him, there is a chance he will take a hardline stance. That would be a shame, but it might happen.
5) My personal advice:
BREATHE! Take a long, slow, deep breath and use this as a learning experience to understand grace better and feel the power of our construction of the Atonement. You didn’t do anything wrong, and you aren’t going to be punished for an honest mistake.
On Own Now wrote:A few thoughts:
– Don’t put yourself in a situation where others determine your priorities and actions. It makes no difference what your bishop thinks. If you want to give money to the church and you have to start fresh starting today, then you have two good choices. One is to let the bishop know that this is what you are doing. That’s valid if that makes you comfortable. The other good choice is not to mention it to the bishop at all, and just do it. Tithing is between you and the Lord, as has been stated by the First Presidency. IMO, the bad option is to ask the bishop for permission to start afresh. The church is not responsible for your relationship to God… you are.
These are wise words indeed.
When I was a BP a couple (who were previously an inactive), asked me about tithing. They wanted to get temple ready. It was September. They asked if they had to backdate to January.
I smiled and said, “Of course not. When you came back to church we didn’t ask you to vomit up all the beer you’d ever drunk. Simply choose to live tithing from today. There’s no need to try to pay for the past.”
The answer you get from a Bishop will be different from one to the next. You need to decide what is right for you. Study it out in your mind, pray about it. It’s between you and God.
And there’s no such thing as ‘curses’ for not paying. Bill Gates is the richest man in the world. He doesn’t pay tithing to our church and hasn’t been cursed for it. He is however very benevolent from what I’ve heard.
The blessing of tithing is simple. It is not financial. The blessing of tithing is letting go of the love of money. Accepting that it is not “my precious” and not letting money become your “graven image.”
By taking the attitude of money being God’s gift to you and being willing to give some of it back you release yourself of one of society’s greatest ills, the love of money.
Nowhere does it say “pay tithing to get more money.” When it talks about the windows of heaven opening, it’s not gold coins pouring out, it’s the gift of charity and unselfishness and being less materialistic. There are plenty of poor full tithe payers. I went to the Philippines and met a chapel full of them.
One final thought. Tithing is taught as paying on your increase/income/interest. Some people use the (original) definition of paying on your increase after you’ve met your essential needs.
If you follow that, and if you’ve spent the money that was left after the tithing was not taken out, then maybe you’ve not had an increase.
Just my 2 cents! 1. I think you are being way too hard on yourself!
2. I don’t think setting up anything with your bank account that is a “forget it and fix it deal” is a good idea.
3. I don’t believe God punishes people for tithing mistakes and/or not tithing, but the LDS Church will and possibly your Bishop too.
If God did punish people for not tithing, the only rich and happy people would be Mormons, IMHO.
4. I would personally just write out a check for the difference or I would just start paying tithing again from this point on.
5. I wouldn’t go to your Bishop unless you are willing to accept the possibility of some added drama being interjected into your life. It’s your choice.
Interestingly, today’s lesson in Priesthood (combined Elders and High Priests) was about tithing – and one of the Bishopric counselors mentioned the idea of being behind in tithing and how there is no need to “make it up” in order to be baptized or attend the temple. He quoted from an apostle (can’t remember which one) who said the same thing, and he said we need to make sure members don’t believe they have to catch up in order to be worthy to attend the temple. In fact, the quote said that the Lord forgives past mistakes and only requires commitment moving forward, not looking back and refusing to let go. I also mentioned how much I dislike the God-as-vending-machine attitude about tithing and how much I also dislike making judgments about others based on whether or not they pay tithing.
I really do love my ward, even though I disagree with plenty that is said now and then.
Old-Timer wrote:Interestingly, today’s lesson in Priesthood (combined Elders and High Priests) was about tithing – and one of the Bishopric counselors mentioned the idea of being behind in tithing and how there is no need to “make it up” in order to be baptized or attend the temple. He quoted from an apostle (can’t remember which one) who said the same thing, and he said we need to make sure members don’t believe they have to catch up in order to be worthy to attend the temple. In fact, the quote said that the Lord forgives past mistakes and only requires commitment moving forward, not looking back and refusing to let go.
I also mentioned how much I dislike the God-as-vending-machine attitude about tithing and how much I also dislike making judgments about others based on whether or not they pay tithing.
I really do love my ward, even though I disagree with plenty that is said now and then.
Could you do us all a favour and get a source on that quote?
It would be a great one for this thread.
Old-Timer wrote:Interestingly, today’s lesson in Priesthood (combined Elders and High Priests) was about tithing – and one of the Bishopric counselors mentioned the idea of being behind in tithing and how there is no need to “make it up” in order to be baptized or attend the temple.
Wouldn’t having to “catch up” on tithing in addition to paying tithing currently just put members into a perpetual state of debt? Sounds like tithing would become like credit card debt in which some people never pull themselves out from under.
Exactly, AM – and that was the exact point this man made. Getting caught up in tithing cost me an extra year in college. I had the choice to pay back tithing or pay my tuition and I choose to pay tithing because my wife insisted and the bishop encouraged us to do so. I would not do that today. It was an accident. Take these steps: – Pray, feel bad, etc. (Sounds like you’ve done this one already.)
– Pay on your most recent paycheck.
– Pay on your next paycheck when it comes.
– Stop feeling bad.
Megatherium wrote:It was an accident. Take these steps:
– Pray, feel bad, etc. (Sounds like you’ve done this one already.)
– Pay on your most recent paycheck.
– Pay on your next paycheck when it comes.
– Stop feeling bad.
Yes this! Tithing is not a make-up commandment, tithing is a move-forward commitment. Life is not a make-up lesson, obviously for some offenses we do our best to make restitution, but life in general is a learn and continue journey.
Here is some good news: The Church is doing just fine financially. They haven’t missed your few months of tithing that was missed by mistake.
Now just navigate your emotions and your conscience, but I don’t think the bishop is stressed about it. He will just want to know your heart is doing ok.
Orson wrote:Tithing is not a make-up commandment, tithing is a move-forward commitment. Life is not a make-up lesson, obviously for some offenses we do our best to make restitution, but life in general is a learn and continue journey.
+1
QuestionAbound wrote:Now I am afraid that Heavenly Father will punish me or did…we recently had a utility shut off (same bank auto pay glitch)…and I need to hurry and confess to the bishop and ask for permission to just skip what I didn’t pay and start fresh.
[snip]
I’ve been taught that we aren’t punished for sins in this life…consequences may follow…but not necessarily punishment. I’ve been taught that blessings can be withheld…a form of punishment, I guess.
The belief that God will bless me as I follow his commandments was what brought me to my “assumptive world collapse.” In the many discussions that DW and I have had since on the subject – we boil it down to perspectives. If something good happens then the individual might see that as a blessing from God. Even when the good came from other people (like groceries on the doorstep) the attribution to God gives the individual the comfort of knowing that they are known individually, loved, and will be cared for. This perspective might make the individual optimistic and might be considered to be a net gain.
Unfortunately the belief that one is being punished or having blessings withheld does not make one feel loved and cared for and is (IMO) a net loss.
👿 I really dislike that tithing especially is taught with this sort of blessing/cursing frame of mind. I wish that this notion would go away and that people would then choose to pay tithing (or not) because of an internal desire.
I feel strongly that God loves you. Regarless of your actions (willful and otherwise) and regardless of your relative “blessings” or life circumstances – He loves you!
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