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According to a Gallup poll the number of Americans that identify as belonging to a religion, believing in God, and believing in Satan declines.
Quote:That’s not exactly how early Christians used the idea of hell, said Henning, an associate professor of Christian origins at the University of Dayton. Those early Christians — inspired by the horror of Roman jails — created images of hell and punishment to motivate people to do the right thing in this life.
Fear of hell, she said, was used to motivate people to care for the poor or to live out the virtues of the Sermon on the Mount. That’s very different from how the fear of hell is used today, she said — where failing to care for the poor is not one of the prime sins that Americans care about.
That’s very different from the Bible’s teachings, she said.
Henning said Gallup’s findings about income and belief in hell and the devil have some parallels in early Christianity. Those early Christians who wrote the New Testament were marginalized and had very little power. The idea of hell and punishing people for their evildoing — or rewarding them for good deeds — was very empowering, she said.
When people have been treated unjustly, she said, they want to believe that there are forces at play to set things right in the end. “Otherwise, it all feels hopeless,” she said.
I was rather interested in this sound bite about how, for early Christians, failing to care for the poor used to be a major moral failing. Also how the thoughts of hell and eternal torment appealed more to these marginalized communities whose oppressors would finally receive their comeuppance.
Early Christianity was based on Judaism of the day, and I believe caring for the poor was a tenet of Judaism then as it is now. The Judaic view of hell is quite different than the Christian view, and when Christ mentioned hell he was not talking about the same place/concept that current Christians understand. It troubles me a bit that Christianity in general felt it necessary to use the scare tactic of a hell as a terrible place to get people to do the right thing and it troubles me that it continues a coupe thousand years later. I am also dismayed at how the church uses very similar fear tactics.
This is interesting. As humanity documents its way to an ever-increasing body of scientific knowledge, it seems unsurprising to me that belief in the devil should naturally wane in line with diminishing superstitions and general gullibility. We have been taught that the devil and his angels are here to tempt and try us, but how does that function exactly? When you experience an unwholesome thought, was that a product of some evil spirit in your vicinity being able to pollute your consciousness, or did you simply exercise free will in allowing your thoughts to wander? I have given some thought about this belief system and haven’t come to any conclusions per se. On a minimally related note, I am enjoying Taylor Swift’s “Karma” song – and part of me is curious whether the impression I have that that Jews of the Old Testament would have thought the “god” described in Taylor Swift’s song was another way of talking about their god is “accurate” or “valid”
Roy wrote:Also how the thoughts of hell and eternal torment appealed more to these marginalized communities whose oppressors would finally receive their comeuppance.
I’m sure it’s prevented an uprising or two over the last few eons.
I want to exact some justice. Drat, I’m powerless. Maybe I should try to get some of that power.
Don’t bother, God will take care of it.
Ok, as long as they get what’s coming to them.
Ironically that thought process could help people along the path of forgiveness. Defer some justice exacting for the next life and suddenly there are a lot more eyes to go around in an eye for an eye world.
It can also provide a much needed cooling off period for people. I might want people to receive less comeuppance after some time has passed or once I understand their situation a little better. It’s a good thing I didn’t have the power to deliver their comeuppance in the heat of the moment.
Justice is such a tricky thing anyway. It’s all about perspective. One person’s idea of perfect justice will be very unjust for others. Pulling at those threads usually lands me at thinking universalism is the only feasible approach.
I see a quote here from time to time, probably from Old Timer, people want mercy for themselves and they want justice for others. We want to be saved from hell but don’t mind if others that we believe have wronged us end up there. It can both scare us into conformity and sate our demands for justice.
DarkJedi wrote:I am also dismayed at how the church uses very similar fear tactics.
It is a shame. I wonder if there’s any duality behind it. For instance, believing that Jesus gave us something miraculous to hope for also creates the fear that we won’t be able to take part in it. Can you have hot without cold, addition without subtraction, God without a Devil?
nibbler wrote:
Can you have hot without cold, addition without subtraction, God without a Devil?
A few months back, I gave some thought to naughty Old Nick. We are taught that Lucifer is an integral part of the Plan because agency is impossible without him, so our very existence depended on someone being willing to undertake that role. In the pre-Earth life, the entire heavenly host would have understood that. That then leaves me feeling uneasy about a complicit devil figure being damned for all eternity. Perhaps it’s simply a ruse to keep us all in check. So, if Lucifer does exist, perhaps he is simply playing the role someone needed to play and is destined for the highest possible glory at the end, having sacrificed his very mortality for the glory of God.:eh: If you use the threat of punishment to motivate people in modern days, it’s usually not that well-received. I tried it once in the High Priest Group when I was HPGL and it fell flat. What worked, to motivate people, was to let the quorum brainstorm what they felt we should be doing in each of the three missions of the church. Then, everyone checked off what they were willing to support. THAT worked — tapping into native passions and enthusiasm. Threats of punishment just roll off everyone and make the leader look bad.
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