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@wayfarer Excellent points. Note from the links that some recommended that you should never confront an abuser at all and if you do you need to do so very carefully.
wayfarer wrote:I What comes after is entirely another matter, because at that point, the Church doesn’t have any leverage.
I actually said this in my earlier post but didn’t go through with it — don’t want to imply the HSAB should just go and do whatever after making promises to these men (and I know WF isn’t imply that either) …on the other hand, after the ordinance is given, the member is in the driver’s seat…within limits. It’s much harder to take away an ordinance than it is to refuse it.
What wayfarer said, word-for-word. Don’t turn this into a confrontation that doesn’t have to happen. The Bishop’s actions might be termed abusive, but the Stake President’s certainly aren’t. Misguided, perhaps, but it feels like he really is acting out of love and concern.
Let the emotions cool down, and then consider more long-term approaches.Use this as a chance to learn real charity (do good to them which despitefully use you – [the Bishop, not the Stake President]) and get sealed to the man you love.
Complicated situation; simple solution; not an easy thing to do.
HSAB wrote: Quote:Complicating your situation further, last night I was made aware that you may be talking about the temple very negatively with others.
The key word here is may. It is he said she said. It is rumored or gossiped that you said. I cannot believe that a SP would say such a thing. You have a testimony you are worthy. It is BS that you are not able to get sealed in the temple quite yet.
For about two years I had a really hard time with the temple. I would quote Jesus as He is greater than the temple. I would say things aloud to others that I don’t really see what is so great, when Jesus himself said he is greater than the temple. I can still have a relationship with the Lord outside the temple. The way is Jesus. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. I have a testimony of Him. I go to the temple for meditation, to read the scriptures without distraction to get personal revelation. I am not overly concerned about the ordinances too much. I haven’t even gone to do an endowment session for over a year now; it just takes way to long in my busy life.
Hang in their. I’m sorry, I really am.
Side note.
I remember teaching temple prep once to a couple that had just joined the church who were in their 80s. I remember teaching about the three degrees of glory and I asked the sister, “So what do you think about all of this “new” information?” She replied, “I don’t really know beyond heaven and hell (she meant paradise and spirit prison), but she continued, “If I have to know it so I can get married to this guy (pointing to her husband) for all time and eternity, than it is worth it.”
Now I was stupefied. She had me. It isn’t what we know, or even claim to know; it is what we desire. Righteous desires coupled with faith in Jesus Christ–the grand leap of faith is what propels us–not knowledge in the abstract.
Thanks for the side note jamison, I’m going to remember that story for along time. Mike from Milton.
Amen. Thank you, jamison. That is a wonderful reminder. Well holy pigs guts!!! so sorry this is happening to you HSAB! I would simply suggest you follow your heart. You know where you stand with your commitment and desires regarding the Lord. You have already been endowed. Don’t let this unbelievably frustrating situation keep you from being sealed if that is what your heart desires. Heavenly Father knows your struggles and pain. He understands your anger as well, he can handle it! Just don’t throw the Lord away completely in your justified rage. Also I’ve lived all over the country. I guarantee that this would have been handled differently in alot of places, some the same, but many in a much better fashion. Don’t let the fact that you got the short end of the draw for a stake president deter you from the life you want to lead. He is not the individual you need to be focused on in any way at this moment or after you are sealed. I know eaiser said than done but live your life and be at peace with whatever you decide.
I have very little time (since I am getting married in 60 hours!) but thank you for all of your comments. I had to subdue my rage and commit to going to the temple once a month, but I got the go ahead to be sealed! That is the very specific statement of conviction the SP was looking for. This whole experience has been eye opening, but through all of it I have felt that the Lord loves me and is aware of me. So whatever happens with my SP and bishop (I will be getting a new bishop-thank goodness!) at least it has not hurt my relationship with the Lord. If anything it has made it grow stronger because I can now more clearly separate the Lord from the church without thinking I must be wrong. Today I was able to focus on what I need to and am getting really excited! Thanks for all the advice-and Cwald I don’t live in the area…but I’m sorry if my story sounds familiar in anyway. 
HSAB, when you say: Quote:…but through all of it I have felt that the Lord loves me and is aware of me.
It’s that the goal we should have in every challenge that comes our way?I know, it’s not always easy to do.
Mike from Milton.
jamison wrote:I remember teaching temple prep once to a couple that had just joined the church who were in their 80s. I remember teaching about the three degrees of glory and I asked the sister, “So what do you think about all of this “new” information?” She replied, “I don’t really know beyond heaven and hell (she meant paradise and spirit prison), but she continued, “If I have to know it so I can get married to this guy (pointing to her husband) for all time and eternity, than it is worth it.”
Now I was stupefied. She had me. It isn’t what we know, or even claim to know; it is what we desire. Righteous desires coupled with faith in Jesus Christ–the grand leap of faith is what propels us–not knowledge in the abstract.
I had a similar experience.I was home teaching a very tenuous couple in the 80s who wanted to get their life in order. Wife was pretty “NOM”ish, having studied as much anti-mormon literature and history of the church that it sort of contaminated her attitude. Husband was a reluctant convert who joined to marry wife. He was serving in EQP, and trying to get active. They were doing pretty well, and prepared to go to temple. Once there, at a particular moment, they both walked out during the endowment. This was during the more gruesome parts of the temple endowment that were changed in 1990.
As I went back to their house to counsel with them about sticking with it, I said, “Yes, I know there are some uncomfortable parts, I was certainly startled by them, but if you stick with it, then you get to do the sealing, the crowning blessing of the gospel, where you two can be married for time and all eternity.”
Blank stares from them. Then they looked at each other, then to me, and said, “No, we’re not interested in that. If we get to the end of this life together, we’re going to do well by just parting friends.”
I had no idea what to say.
Has the issue of “covenants” been addressed yet? The SP wants to know, HSAB, if you are ready to make and keep covenants. Do you feel you are?
Good question, Heber, but wearing the garment isn’t one of the temple covenants. Most people don’t stop and think about that.
In that case, Ray, HSAB should revisit wayfarer’s thread on TR question 12. The question does ask:
Quote:Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
It is not a covenant, but it is in accordance to covenants and instructed as such. Sometimes being vague in answers about it and discretion around feelings about it is best, but I am not sure how HSAB can prepare thoughts to satisfy the SP at this point.It is a tough situation.
wayfarer wrote:jamison wrote:I remember teaching temple prep once to a couple that had just joined the church who were in their 80s. I remember teaching about the three degrees of glory and I asked the sister, “So what do you think about all of this “new” information?” She replied, “I don’t really know beyond heaven and hell (she meant paradise and spirit prison), but she continued, “If I have to know it so I can get married to this guy (pointing to her husband) for all time and eternity, than it is worth it.”
Now I was stupefied. She had me. It isn’t what we know, or even claim to know; it is what we desire. Righteous desires coupled with faith in Jesus Christ–the grand leap of faith is what propels us–not knowledge in the abstract.
I had a similar experience.I was home teaching a very tenuous couple in the 80s who wanted to get their life in order. Wife was pretty “NOM”ish, having studied as much anti-mormon literature and history of the church that it sort of contaminated her attitude. Husband was a reluctant convert who joined to marry wife. He was serving in EQP, and trying to get active. They were doing pretty well, and prepared to go to temple. Once there, at a particular moment, they both walked out during the endowment. This was during the more gruesome parts of the temple endowment that were changed in 1990.
As I went back to their house to counsel with them about sticking with it, I said, “Yes, I know there are some uncomfortable parts, I was certainly startled by them, but if you stick with it, then you get to do the sealing, the crowning blessing of the gospel, where you two can be married for time and all eternity.”
Blank stares from them. Then they looked at each other, then to me, and said, “No, we’re not interested in that. If we get to the end of this life together, we’re going to do well by just parting friends.”
I had no idea what to say.
Wayfarer — I don’t see the connection between the two stories. The first person wanted the temple experience because they wanted to be married for eternity, the other couple apparently were in a marriage of mutual toleration. I don’t see how these two experiences are similar at all, other than both couples had temple concerns.
SD, the point I got from the two stories is that different people can have completely different want and needs. You’re not going to catch all fish in any one net.
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