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Our good friend Bill Reel has done an interview with Terryl Givens. http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/10/14/terryl-givens-crucible-of-doubt/ I’m enjoying it
He talks (around 15mins) about “the truths of the restoration I find the most satisfying.”
They are:
1. We believe in a God whose heart beats in sympathy with ours
2. That we lived as pre-existant children
3. That life isn’t a purgatory or a punishment or a fall. That it is an ascent towards godliness
4. That God has the capacity to save the entire human family
5. That relationships can and should be eternal
He also discusses Moses 6+7 and says “why should it matter how that beautiful account came to the earth?”
Yes it is excellent! :thumbup: I love every bit of it, what sticks with me are his comments about God using fallible men as prophets. Outstanding, all of it.
I know he says that he’s not been asked to do what he’s doing by the leaders. But I’d be very surprised if Elder Uchtdorf and he are not in contact. My brother jumped up while watching Elder Uchtdorf’s Saturday Morning session talk and said “I’m sure he’s read The God Who Weeps.” I wish everyone would. I’ll be interested to read his “Crucible of doubt” book too.
I really enjoy Bill Reel’s podcast and hope it’s staying afloat financially. It’s funny to me that back when he was interviewed on PBS I regarded Terryl Givens as so “out there,” and now I look to him as solidly “in” and wonder if I can come back to where he is.
There were so many good topics discussed. One thing new to me was the psychology of non-doubting, for lack of a better word. I wonder if the pendulum will eventually swing and we’ll hear Pres. Uchtdorf say: “One might ask, ‘If the gospel is so wonderful, why would anyone have brittle faith that can’t accept human mistakes and historical facts? Sometimes we assume it is because they are insecure themselves, or that their intolerance and rigid orthodoxy are born of their own fears. Actually, it is not so simple….”
Just kidding, but I’m glad Givens addressed it because he has credibility, and, like any generalization, it is probably true for some, just not all.
I like what he said about the stakes being lower than we think on some of the complex issues apologists have been addressing point by point, and that we get hung up on the wrong questions. “I think the church can and should be willing to give much more ground because conceding much of the territory doesn’t impinge on the fundamentals of the faith.”
Thanks for bringing up the topic of brittle or fragile faith Ann, that was one of my favorite parts of the discussion. I have also thought along those lines that Terryl expounded on. I used to have a testimony of glass, it shattered. I now feel my testimony is built of granite, it is not fully formed but it is not weak. I don’t understand the talk that I hear around “you must always nourish your testimony or it will grow weak.” That type of thinking makes no sense to me. Truth is not that fickle. This reminds me of another topic (as usual
😆 ) when I hear anyone say “I don’t know if I have a testimony” what I hear is “I don’t know what I believe” -or- the statement “I don’t have a testimony” translates to “I don’t have any personal beliefs.” A “traditional” Mormon testimony is not the only thing that qualifies as a testimony. Think of a court of law, anything that a witness will say is considered a testimony. Pagans have a testimony, Atheists have a testimony. We all own our individual testimonies no matter what the content is. “I don’t know what my testimony is right now” makes a lot more sense than not having one at all. …but what I would get a kick out of is “my glass testimony broke so I don’t feel like I have anything to share in that meeting where everyone holds up their crystal goblets to admire how they shine in the sun.”
I realize some people may need to sip nourishment from their testimonies, I sit on my block of granite, it is my foundation. I don’t get into trouble when I forget to nourish my testimony, I get into trouble when I wander too far from my foundation.
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