Bishop Youth Interviews: What would you do with this?

[Anonymous]

Quote:

It is exclusive in nature and un-Christian in my opinion.

Jesus did it regularly. If you doubt that, re-read the Gospels; it is a common theme. It also is part of every aspect of our lives.

I agree we botch it regularly in the way we apply it (inside and outside the Church), but the concept itself is integral and important in communal life.

[Anonymous]

Yeah Ray, I understand that Jesus did the wheat and chaff thing. I’m just thinking it’s not our job. Let God figure that out. We would do better to be inclusive.

[Anonymous]

I agree that we should be as inclusive as possible – but “worthiness” simply is part of life.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

It is exclusive in nature and un-Christian in my opinion.

Jesus did it regularly. If you doubt that, re-read the Gospels; it is a common theme.

Isn’t it ironic that Jesus could in some ways and at some times be described as un-Christian. 😆

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Isn’t it ironic that Jesus could in some ways and at some times be described as un-Christian. 😆

Yep – and, in some cases, ultra-orthodox and highly conservative.

I think Jesus is a perfect example (ironic wording, I know) of the danger of stereotyping and labeling. He was a radical progressive in some ways and a radical conservative in others. People tend to acknowledge the part(s) with which they identify and ignore (or miss completely) the part(s) with which they don’t.

[Anonymous]

I fought this battle for a dozen years and I will spare you the details or specific advice.

Take home lessons include:

1.These youth interviews have some kind of primal importance to local church leaders far beyond what I consider reasonable. And quite apart from a few perverts in positions of authority getting their jollies. Like maybe they instinctively sense if they can control everything concerning the sexual expression of the youth they control everything else?

2.[Insult of most local leaders deleted.] You are not dealing with the likes of Brigham Young or Isaac Haight. (Organized the mountain meadows massacre) Signs of weakness already manifested include long delays in handling the issue, long defensive written letters (not face-to-face), and general passive aggressiveness. Stick to your guns. Maybe these local Idaho leaders are different than mine but probably not.

3.Be quietly but firmly willing to suffer their consequences. A parent has every right to limit an interview; while the church has every right to extend Priesthood offices or allow participation in temple work on their terms. Hum the tune to the hymn, “Do What Is Right, Let the Consequences Follow.” It is also a black mark on them when your son/daughter does not advance according to their agenda.

4.Don’t underestimate your youth. They can deal with these problems often with greater flexibility and creativity than you can. If you teach them the basic principles and get them to buy into it and let them know you will back them up no matter what, then they will take care of the problem themselves and usually not gently. Often they will escalate the struggle to include other youth and the bishop will rapidly have a small revolt on his hands. Few youth actually enjoy these interviews. The more difficult struggle is when church leaders attempt to divide and then wrangle your youth away from your influence. But you still have many advantages and should prevail.

5.Use technology. Remember Nixon and his tapes? That was new and powerful technology then. Today your youth can have a digital device recording everything said while in those interviews with you listening (or their friends giggling) right outside the door or anywhere across the globe. A sensible Bishop would see that this playing field has shifted distinctly to his disadvantage and be grateful for the added protection a chaperone affords him. Various states have different laws governing what is legal when recording conversations, but youth are not going to get into much trouble even if it is illegal.

6.If all else fails bring in the big guns. As an American citizen you have the right to freedom of religion and that includes freedom from religion. You can call the police and file a complaint against the bishop if he goes against your expressed wishes and forces your children to do something against your consent. You can remind him of your rights as a citizen. Watch them shape up then. In SE Idaho the LDS church might have more influence on law enforcement than here. But police work everywhere by its very nature involves working on Sunday and takes officers out of regular church activity. Hence most police do not yield to church authority one bit. They might investigate and ultimately file no charges; but even that will set a church leader back on the path of righteousness and reasonableness.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

[Admin Note]: We don’t allow broad, sweeping attacks and insults against church leaders. Calling most local leaders a highly insulting name is going to be deleted every time here. We can make our points without resorting to that.

[Anonymous]

I agree with most of your comment, but . . .

Quote:

You can call the police and file a complaint against the bishop if he goes against your expressed wishes and forces your children to do something against your consent.

Asking questions in the role of an ecclesiastical leader is not grounds for a legal complaint – and involving the police in religious matters is the nuclear bomb option (only to be used in cases where actual laws are broken). There is no better way to get ostracized in any group than to bring in police when there is no reasonable rationalization to do so – when no law has been broken. Again, a religious leader asking youth more than generic questions about sex can be creepy, but it absolutely is not illegal – regardless of parental consent. It’s not even illegal outside of religion, including in many schools.

Also, most of the local leaders I have known in my life have been good people doing the best they know how. Some of them have been among the finest people I have known. There have been a few exceptions, but the vast majority of them are not like your comment depicts them.

[Anonymous]

Regrets for this late response. The boy scouts have taken me hostage in the wilderness for a long spell. Threw me off a cliff into a river if that’s any consolation to anyone.

What I really like about Old-Timer is that he calls it like he sees it. Not afraid to tell the bear where to poop in the woods. I suppose being a Priesthood descendant of J. Golden Kimball, my repertoire of insults is more extensive and more offensive than most. The epitaph that got deleted that I used to describe my local church leaders was what I would consider only mildly insulting. But it is good to have a better idea of the boundaries around here and I thank you for not deleting any more of it. Correction accepted with a smile.



I agree with most of the contents of the above comment. Calling the police is among the most effective ways to get ostracized in any group. Local church leaders are usually good people doing the best they know how. I listed it last as a desperate option when “all else fails.”

This is a mere semantic point. To me calling the police is not the nuclear bomb option, more like high altitude pamphlet bombing. The nuclear bomb option is physical confrontation. My father, a professional boxer, taught his boys how to fight. He also taught me specifically, to walk away from most fights since I am kinda scrawny and not that strong. I didn’t listen very well and lost most of the fights I ever got into as a lad. During the Great Depression, my stocky Scottish grandfather punched the bishop hard enough to break his jaw and landed in jail for it. He was provoked; it was a long, mostly forgotten story. I know from sad experience about this option.

People carry knives and guns and physical confrontation easily escalates into deadly violence. The key, my father taught us, to staying out of jail is to “never draw first blood.” But verbal provocations that cause an adversary to take the first swing or fire the first shot justify retaliation as self-defense. On the other hand, the key to staying alive is to “never bring a knife to a gun fight.” I happen to know that it is legal to carry concealed weapons to church with a permit in the state where I live. Apparently this option has recently been banned by the LDS church in our buildings.(http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com ) Why take the trouble of doing that if it never happens? This to me is the ”nuclear bomb option.” To get in your leader’s face, use some highly insulting names until they take a punch at you and then beat the h.!! out of them. Or if they draw on you, better have your gun ready to go. Notice I did NOT recommend it. Calling the police is actually rather mild to what can and has actually happened many times.

I wish to take more serious umbrage with the second comment on another point. The concept of sexual harassment is probably most explicitly defined by the US EEOC in the work place. The word “unwelcome” appears frequently in their materials along with the phrase: “verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature.” I would contend that “asking questions in the role of an ecclesiastical leader” could be against the law as defined by the EEOC if the questions are “unwelcome” and if they are “verbal” and if they are “of a sexual nature.” A middle age man taking a teenage girl into a room alone and asking her questions about her sexual activity against her parent’s expressed wishes seems to fit this definition. I don’t see any reasonable way around it. Whether a stricter or more lenient standard applies at church in contrast to the work place is not a serious question. Expected behavior at church should be at least a notch above that in the workplace, not below it.

[Anonymous]

Porter, just in case you want to know how I feel about Bishops (or any church leaders) asking youth detailed questions about sexual conduct in interviews (with or without parental consent), read the following from my personal blog:

“Sex and Bishop’s Youth Interviews” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2011/11/sex-and-bishops-youth-interviews.html)

Obviously, I am against it – adamantly. The comment thread is a good example of how more conservative, traditional members defend it – and why I oppose it.

However, it’s not illegal, since ecclesiastical leaders and counselors have broad exemptions from some things that would be illegal if done by others.

[Author]

Posts