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Old Timer wrote:
Hope in the unseen makes life bearable. Life without hope in the unseen . . .Yes, we can be blinded by faith. Absolutely. However, we also ARE enlightened and inspired and driven by faith.
“It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness.” C. A. Elwood
“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223
“I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene” Heber13
Faith can give us purpose, meaning, hope, courage, inspiration, and endurance. Faith can also curtail, control, blind, and limit us. The trick is to foster and encourage the former while reducing and minimizing the former.
I think there are multiple definitions of faith that we try to mesh together into a unified theory but sometimes it really is separate concepts that we try to wrangle together. 1) There’s faith that could be equated with the motivational force behind everything we do.
2) There’s faith that could be equated to hope.
3) There’s faith that could be equated with belief in a very specific doctrine.
4) There’s faith in a particular organization or person.
It can cause confusion when we’re having conversations about faith and someone says, “You just need to have faith.” The person speaking may be thinking faith #2 and the person listening may hear faith #3.
When we talk about faith at church I get the feeling that we’re mostly talking about #3 and #4 faith. These days everyone knows someone that has left the church, it’s on people’s minds. We don’t really know what to say or do about that so the conversation becomes having enough #3 and #4 faith to make sure we don’t fall away from the church.
nibbler wrote:3) There’s faith that could be equated with belief in a very specific doctrine.
That’s the kind of faith in which I have doubt! I have faith in certain people and organizations, but it’s not a faith in their divine connection — it’s faith in their abilities to achieve temporal objectives.
I rarely talk about the “which are true” clause because I understand the intent is reasonable but don’t like it, nonetheless. When it comes to things dealing with God and the afterlife, especially, “which are true” is purely subjective – and it robs faith of much of the power of what I believe it is in the purest sense. “Accurately placed faith” is a subset of faith, in my mind, not the entire thing. I have to separate faith from knowledge for it to mean anything important, so I don’t define faith based on “which are true” – even, again, as I understand the reasonable intention behind the addition.
nibbler wrote:
I think there are multiple definitions of faith that we try to mesh together into a unified theory but sometimes it really is separate concepts that we try to wrangle together.1) There’s faith that could be equated with the motivational force behind everything we do.
2) There’s faith that could be equated to hope.
3) There’s faith that could be equated with belief in a very specific doctrine.
4) There’s faith in a particular organization or person.
It can cause confusion when we’re having conversations about faith and someone says, “You just need to have faith.” The person speaking may be thinking faith #2 and the person listening may hear faith #3.
When we talk about faith at church I get the feeling that we’re mostly talking about #3 and #4 faith. These days everyone knows someone that has left the church, it’s on people’s minds. We don’t really know what to say or do about that so the conversation becomes having enough #3 and #4 faith to make sure we don’t fall away from the church.
I completely understand and agree that when we’re talking about faith almost all people are talking about it on context of one or more of those four definitions. The question is, when the scriptures/scripture writers are talking about faith are any of those four what they were talking about? I think the argument could be made that for the most part with NT and BoM at least they were actually talking about faith in Jesus Christ (which could be included in definition 4). In that context the “You just need to have faith” statement would actually be “You just need to have faith in Jesus Christ.” The problem comes in with people not really seeing what faith in Christ gets them here and now – especially when it comes to healing, a current crisis, and the like.
Faith is a tough concept for me. Maybe due to my own fault it has caused me great pain. It has led me to believe in things that turned out to be false. After exerting all the faith I could muster I started walking down a path I felt I was inspired to follow and it led to terrible consequences. It has happened a couple of times. Then by the third time I had had enough. I could no longer rectify in my mind what was going on. That was 10 years ago and since I have lived by my own wisdom. Not saying I am any happier or better off per se, but I no longer have the conflict in my mind. It can be a challenge at times to wake up and realize if the day is going to work it is up to me, but that is the reality I live in. It has made me a much stronger individual and more self reliant.
I think faith tends to be a crutch to to many to help them make decisions they struggle with. In my observations if something is true it becomes self evident to me. I generally do not need to pray about it. If something relies on constant prayer and invoking “faith” I tend to shun those things. I do not believe truth is hidden like that. I do not like to have to exert faith to believe in something. I like things to be self evident and supported by facts. Faith in the unseen to me becomes opinion. Like politics everyone stands on their corner convinced they are correct, and unable to conceive why others are on another corner.
Leaders of the church have had to invoke faith to get members too response to their wishes. In many use they have been on the right path and it is beneficial to follow them. Others times as we know they have misled the members. So they are human like you and me. I do not need faith to understand that.
I have been accused by some of living in darkness and not subject to the light of Christ, because I will not believe on faith anymore. Perhaps it is true since I acknowledge I can be wrong about things, perhaps many things, but it is I who is wrong, not a feeling or emotion.
I do have faith in one thing. That is the universe will work itself out one way or another and I am along for the ride.
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