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I just read that the scouts are considering changing their policy on gays. Wow, what would that do to the church and and their support for the scouting program. We had friends of scouting a few weeks ago and the presenter commented how the scouts have lost so much support because of their stance and we need to give them money to show how much we back them on this. I heard the LDS church is the biggest financial backers of the BSA. I hate friends of scouting to start (my own issues). I have mixed emotions about this but would like to hear what you have to say. The most interesting headline I saw was something like, “Boy Scouts to follow Mormon Church’s New Policy of Accepting Homosexuals”. I’m all for it. I see absolutely no reason why it shouldn’t happen.
I have family who are posting very angry responses on Facebook. They are outraged…knowing how I feel and how important this issue is to me. What do you suppose would happen if I merely liked some of the pro links I’ve read from say, Bishop kloosterman?
Yeah.
Funny how life works that way isn’t it.
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What the scouts are saying is that there won’t be a policy that will apply to all units. The sponsoring organizations will be able to decide for themselves about who they will or won’t exclude based on their own principles. Since the church now accepts gay and lesbian members that are chaste and celibate for callings, they’ll be able to serve in scouting along with anyone else. I find the civil union between the BSA and American Mormons to be pretty barmy anyway. The church has made little attempt to associate with them in any other country. If it’s such an important saving program to the YM, why forget the non-american boys? Wasatch Mormonism at its worst.
There was a discussion over on MDDB about and people were bearing testimony about the truthfullness of the Friends of Scouting program. You what???!
The fact that American mormon individuals and families without boys in scouts are expected to subsidise their money grubbing execs and expensive jollies in the mountains or at the beach is pretty sickening.
I will attend the Friends of Scouting breakfast in my ward for the free food, but I won’t bring my checkbook – and I wouldn’t even if I was far more financially stable. Yeah, it’s nowhere near a holy alliance or related to salvation in any way.
🙄 Old-Timer wrote:I will attend the Friends of Scouting breakfast in my ward for the free food, but I won’t bring my checkbook – and I wouldn’t even if I was far more financially stable.
Yeah, it’s nowhere near a holy alliance or related to salvation in any way.
🙄 Yeah! milk that fatted calf! (If I can mix metaphors…)
Basically, we just know that the BSA is considering some type of an accomdation. Nothing official has been announced yet. Apparently the BSA has been deluged by phone calls by people against the change, while some gay rights supporters are trying to marhsall their forces to call in favor of it. I will wait to see what they ultimately decide. Assuming that they do take the middle road by allowing units to decide for themselves, it takes the hook off the BSA but places it squarely on all of those organizations. I didn;t realize that even LDS wards are split on this. I read somewhere that some LDS Wards do allow gay youths in their units as well as gay scout leaders as long as they are temple worthy. I have also heard the other end where LDS units have kicked out leaders or youth who come out as gay. Legal pressure will be off the BSA, but you can bet someone will find a way to bring legal pressure upon the Church.
So how will the Church respond? Will they go to scout camps knowing that there will be gays in other troops there? Will there be tension between troops on that issue? What about board of reviews? If a scout council decides to allow gays in their leadership, you could find a gay person serving on the board of review for an LDS scout. That gay member of the board of review would be within their rights to ask about citizenship, belief in God, and other issues that may raise the issue of homosexuality and serve as a litmus test for them. It is possible that an LDS youth could be refused their Eagle for intolerance towards gays by a scout council that is “gay friendly” What a change from the youth who was not granted his Eagle Rank because he was gay. Anyways, this is all conjecture…but just serve as example of some “sticky” situations that could arise if the BSA adopts this proposed compromise and the Church leaves it stance unchanged.
Or will the church simply abandon scouting and put in its own program as some have theorized for quite some time now?
Quote:Or will the church simply abandon scouting and put in its own program as some have theorized for quite some time now?
I hope so, but that hope has nothing to do with my view on homosexuals participating in the LDS Chuch or Boy Scouts.
Also, for the record, just to put it out there and not as an admin stance of any kind, I personally don’t like the term “gays”. It carries too much of a slur in society and in my own experience.
Gays have aways been in the scouts… Galileo wrote:
I didn;t realize that even LDS wards are split on this. I read somewhere that some LDS Wards do allow gay youths in their units as well as gay scout leaders as long as they are temple worthy. I have also heard the other end where LDS units have kicked out leaders or youth who come out as gay.
The church’s official position on homosexual attraction is:
Quote:
Where the Church stands:The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.
And:
Quote:This official website does not offer a comprehensive explanation of everything related to same-sex attraction, but it does reflect the feelings of Church leaders as to how we should treat each other as part of the human family. The site offers a place where the people whose lives are impacted by attraction to the same sex can find inspiration to work through difficult challenges while remaining faithful to Church teachings.
The Church’s approach to this issue stands apart from society in many ways. And that’s alright. Reasonable people can and do differ. From a public relations perspective it would be easier for the Church to simply accept homosexual behavior. That we cannot do, for God’s law is not ours to change. There is no change in the Church’s position of what is morally right.
But what is changing — and what needs to change — is to help Church members respond sensitively and thoughtfully when they encounter same-sex attraction in their own families, among other Church members, or elsewhere. And from Elder D. Todd Christofferson, representing “the sentiments and teachings of the highest Church authorities — the First Presidency and the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.”
Quote:…homosexual behavior is not the unforgiveable sin. The atonement and repentance can bring full forgiveness there, and peace. And secondly, I’d say though we don’t know everything we know enough to be able to say that
same-sex attraction in and of itself is not a sin. The feeling, the desire is not classified the same as homosexual behavior itself.And the third point I would mention is that when people have those desires and same-sex attractions, our attitude is “stay with us.” I think that’s what God is saying “Stay with me.” And that’s what we want to say in the Church: “Stay with us.” Let’s work together on this and find friendship and commonality and brotherhood and sisterhood, here more than anywhere. It’s important that there be love, and that there be hope. Love is not to say acceptance or endorsement, but it is to say inclusion and not ostracism. We want to be with you and work together. Are there restrictions on Church participation?
Someone who is adhering to the norm of chastity, someone who is
following the covenants and the standards, teachings of the gospel of Christ, though they may be dealing with same-sex attraction really there’s no reason they cannot be fully participative, that they can’t be a full-fledged member of the Church and hold callings and speak and enter the temple and serve there, and all the other opportunities and blessings that can come from Church membership will be available to them. There are examples of this among Church members, there are multiple examples. And though no one would say that it’s always easy, all of us are endeavoring to maintain those norms and keep our covenants, and we’re all in the same boat, in the same company, in that regard. So, I say there are many, relatively speaking, who are finding that success in their lives and that happiness.
http://www.mormonsandgays.org/ I try to keep a copy of this close to hand for any potential conversations with church leaders or other members.
Galileo, I’ve just realised you might be talking only about scout groups banning gay leaders and gay scouts. Maybe that’s a different issue. It’s about time! The BSA ban is because some people can’t tell the difference between pedophilia and homosexuality, like confusing serial killers with Avon ladies. The members who are so far entrenched against gay people lack empathy, IMO, and surround themselves with enough like-minded people that they don’t have to question their assumptions about gay people. It’s a self-sustaining system, but the cracks are starting to appear. My son’s school encouraged kids to wear purple in support of anti-bullying which was also because of gay kids being bullied and that being in the news. (His old school had a GSA, which he supported, but not sure this one does). One of his church friends refused to wear the purple shirt and was arguing with him about wearing it. I could not believe that anyone LDS would essentially be pro-bullying. This is a very nice kid. This was definitely anti-gay rhetoric he was getting at home from his otherwise nice parents.
I predict the church will start their own young mens program and leave the BSA eventually. It may be partly due to gays, but I think ultimately it will be for financial and organizational differences. LDS boy scouts perform organizational gymnastics to make the scout hierarchy fit priesthood hierarchy. I thought the church already have their own young men’s program… Isn’t it called… the young men’s program (like the young women program)? Duty to God is the achievement program and the youth leaders organise activities/events and camps. Or do we just have a different version of the church in UK. The franchised version. Like the original but trimmed down of the best (or worst?) bits…
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