Bulgarian Golden Plates

[Anonymous]

Thanks to bridget_night for this –

http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/goldenplates.html

These are pretty cool, whether or not you see them as evidence for the BoM.

Quote:

The world’s oldest multiple-page book—in the lost Etruscan language—has gone on display in Bulgaria’s National History Museum in Sofia. And something about that book has particular interest for Latter-day Saints.

[img]http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/newsimages/goldenplates.jpg[/img]

[Anonymous]

I always love information like this. A gospel of the Magi (wise men) was recently translated as well.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for posting this SamBee. It was good to read this again and gives you food for thought.

[Anonymous]

I think I told this story here before once. I might not believe this story if it had not happened to me. I am not telling a story that I heard from someone. This was a strange encounter I personally had while teaching as a missionary in Germany back in 1988-1990.

Germany has a lot of political refugees from all over the world. By treaty (after WWII), they are required to accept and protect political refugees who seek asylum from any country Germany invaded during WWII (that was what I was told when I lived there). Anyway, we contacted a family from Turkey, but they were ethnic Kurds. Kurdistan used to be a country, but it was split up between Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and Iraq. The Kurds still live there, but tend to be a highly oppressed minority in their new countries.

So we were invited in to teach this family. The husband called in his brother to translate for us. I can’t remember which language we were speaking, but the brother translated from English or German into Kurdish for the rest of the family. They could also read Arabic. We brought them an Arabic Book of Mormon. So, I’m teaching the First Discussion which at that time went over the First Vision and the story of Joseph translating the BoM. I’m thinking to myself “Right, these people aren’t even Christian. They are probably just being polite.” But they kept nodding their heads like — sure, JS talked to some angles. Yup. No problem. Gold plates and ancient scriptures buried for a later date? Of course, how else is it done? That sounds perfectly normal. Prophets lead people. Yup. No problem.

So finally, I just had to stop. I bluntly asked them “Don’t you guys have any questions or problems with this? Why does this all seem normal to you?” (kind of funny thinking back on that now). So they start telling me this story about their people. The husband in the family was talking, and his brother translated into German/English for us. He told us that he doesn’t know a lot about their native religion, but the old men in his village growing up passed along the Kurdish culture and traditions (including their pre-Islamic religion which they partially maintain). They told stories of how a long time ago, nobody knows anymore how long, the Kurdish people were lead by a prophet that talked to angels. Angels commanded him where to lead the people. This prophet wrote down the words of the angels, and the record of their religion on metal plates and buried them for safe keeping, but now nobody knows where they are. They have mostly forgotten what their prophet taught, and they look forward someday to having these plates returned.

True story. Dead serious this time. The whole family joined the Church, and so did the brother. I baptized the husband. It was the oddest case of investigators being “golden.”

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing that story, Brian.

As a history teacher at heart, one of my favorite “history” quotes of all time is:

Quote:

We know so little of history – and what we don’t know would blow our minds if we knew it. Our problem is that we think we know so much of history – and that what we don’t know isn’t all that important. It’s good to remember when talking of history, even recent history, that we are babes in diapers – barely learning how to navigate a terrain with which we are unfamiliar.

Sorry, I don’t have a citation, but I love the quote.

[Anonymous]

Brian, that’s a really cool story. Two thoughts came to my mind for a possible religion: Bahai or Montanism. Montanus was a “heretical” prophet from Turkey–I did a post on it a while back: http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/06/18/montanists-mormons-and-early-christian-doctrines/

[Anonymous]

I wish I could go back in time with my current awareness and talk to them . If I had to guess, I think perhaps they were “Yazidi” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi

They didn’t seem particularly Christian. I can’t remember the reference, but when I was thinking of this a couple years ago, I looked up native Kurdish religion and found a reference to a secretive tribal belief structure that they don’t share with outsiders. When they have to explain it to outsiders, like perhaps my situation, they will claim they don’t know a lot about it, and rattle off some elements that perhaps their grandfather or an elderly uncle taught them (this is just a way to divert attention, they actually do know a lot).

*shrug* I don’t know what it all means. I just know it was a strange missionary experience. At the time, I thought very much of the lost 10 tribes of Israel.

[Anonymous]

Interesting story Brian. I have a “similar” story about an immigrant family that we met in NY, who was from Turkey or Iraq, but the more I think about, I think they WERE Kurds or at least from that area (I just didn’t know what that meant at the time). I know they were in trouble with their own government and said they would be killed if they if they went back. They called us —- wanting to be baptized in the church that “had found the lost records on plates of metals.”

When we taught them, the son had to translate for us. The Dad, and older man, couldn’t speak a word of English, but accepted everything we told him. No questions asked. The women never said a word (custom). The next day the son called us back and told us they needed to be baptized TODAY, because they were getting deported. Of course, the ZL’s and AP’s never even considered it an option. The next day they were gone – their apartment had been cleaned out. This happened in 1989. Any chance we came across the same family, or is it just a crazy coincidence?

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

This happened in 1989. Any chance we came across the same family, or is it just a crazy coincidence?

Strangely enough, it was probably 1989 when I taught this family in the story too. My mission was 1988 – 1990. I remember the husband’s name was Ibrahim (sp?) and his brother was Yusef(sp?) … but those are VERY common names in that region of the world. Their wives had these triangle tribal tattoos on their lower lips (their version of a wedding ring) and never spoke to us that I can remember.

I really doubt it was the same family. The one I taught came to Germany from Turkey. I think they would have mentioned if they had lived in NY. Same deal though. They were refugees in Germany, and they claimed they would be killed if they returned.

[Anonymous]

Brian Johnston wrote:

cwald wrote:

This happened in 1989. Any chance we came across the same family, or is it just a crazy coincidence?

Strangely enough, it was probably 1989 when I taught this family in the story too. My mission was 1988 – 1990. I remember the husband’s name was Ibrahim (sp?) and his brother was Yusef(sp?) ... but those are VERY common names in that region of the world. Their wives had these triangle tribal tattoos on their lower lips (their version of a wedding ring) and never spoke to us that I can remember.

I really doubt it was the same family. The one I taught came to Germany from Turkey. I think they would have mentioned if they had lived in NY. Same deal though. They were refugees in Germany, and they claimed they would be killed if they returned.

OMG – I think this is the same family. I know I wrote down their names in my journal some where. I will check tonight and see if I can find it.

[Anonymous]

Very Interesting stories Brian and cwald. Love those kinds of stories.

Ray, great quote!!!! Sums up how I think about most things actually. We don’t know!! So let’s try to live a good life and be kind to each other.

CG

What has always bothered me about the golden plates is that we don’t have them to look at. That would have been very cool:)

[Anonymous]

I was thinking the name was Yazeed, but it could have been Yasif. I’ll check tonight.

[Anonymous]

Brian Johnston wrote:

So finally, I just had to stop. I bluntly asked them “Don’t you guys have any questions or problems with this? Why does this all seem normal to you?” (kind of funny thinking back on that now). So they start telling me this story about their people. The husband in the family was talking, and his brother translated into German/English for us. He told us that he doesn’t know a lot about their native religion, but the old men in his village growing up passed along the Kurdish culture and traditions (including their pre-Islamic religion which they partially maintain). They told stories of how a long time ago, nobody knows anymore how long, the Kurdish people were lead by a prophet that talked to angels. Angels commanded him where to lead the people. This prophet wrote down the words of the angels, and the record of their religion on metal plates and buried them for safe keeping, but now nobody knows where they are. They have mostly forgotten what their prophet taught, and they look forward someday to having these plates returned.

Kurds (who are probably the largest stateless nation in the world, all twenty million of them, have their own religion. They are called Yazidi or Yezidi, but it is pre-Islamic. The Muslims say it is a devilish religion. I don’t know much about it other than peacocks are highly venerated in it, and I have seen a programme on it.

Brian’s story rings true, because I know that it has a major angelic tradition.

[Author]

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