But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect

[Anonymous]

I’m currently struggling with solidifying thoughts so this post might be rough. This thread could have just as easily been created in the Support forum but it includes some doctrinal stuff so I thought I’d split the difference.

Last Sunday in SM I was reflecting on many things. For whatever reason this scripture, Genesis 4:4, popped into my head and stuck around for a while. I started reflecting on whether or not I felt accepted by the group. I place emphasis on these being my feelings because, as odd as it sounds, I know that people in my unit both love and accept me. You’d think that knowledge would influence how I felt, but there it was. I was questioning and in that questioning I was trying to learn about myself.

Some background: GBH said that everyone needs a responsibility. I get that. A responsibility gives people an opportunity to interact with a community, a way to give back, and feel like a part of the group. I’ve got a strong desire to serve but at times I’ve struggled. I feel like I no longer have anything left to give that the church would be interested in receiving. Maybe that’s far too harsh. To turn things back on myself, perhaps I’m less willing to serve in ways that the church wants me to serve. In that scenario I just have to humble myself and serve where asked as opposed to serve in ways that would be more fulfilling or meaningful to me. Either way that lack of mutually beneficial service has placed a strain on my sense of belonging.

So that got me thinking. Why was Cain’s offering rejected? Before I go on I should mention that I’m not wroth in any way shape or form. I won’t be following in Cain’s footsteps, I’m just really curious.

1) Who rejected Cain’s offering? Or more pointedly how did Cain know that his offering was not respected? In my experience things like this are driven more by peers than by free flowing, clear communication between us and the lord. Some person may have influenced Cain to feel that way. On the other hand there’s a lot of direct communication with the lord in Genesis, in fact right after this event the lord appears to interrogate Cain directly.

2) Why was Cain’s offering not respected? Once my explanation was that Cain’s offering was not a blood sacrifice. It fell short because a fruit offering wasn’t capable of conveying the same level of symbolism that a blood sacrifice conveys. I’m reminded that this was an offering, not a sacrifice and that there are other instances in the OT in which a grain offering is both made and found acceptable. Genesis 4:3-4 are interesting in drawing the distinction that Abel brought forth the firstlings whereas Cain’s offering carries no such distinction. It’s just “fruit” not “the best, blue ribbon at the county fair fruit.”

Commentary I’ve read draws on the NT (Hebrews 11:4) to say that Abel showed more faith in his offering (though the commentary could just as easily have focused on the words “more excellent”) but it’s hard to put much stock in what the NT says because knowledge of what Cain did afterwards introduces bias against Cain IMO.

I guess it comes down to speculation and personal interpretation?

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So where the heck am I going with all this? Like I said, my thoughts are matter unorganized.

I can’t really remember what the ancient Israelites did, if I ever knew, but by the time Jesus arrived on the scene people were trading money/goods to obtain sacrificial animals. This was done for the convenience of not having to travel to Jerusalem with animals in tow but I’m guessing there were other people that wanted to offer up a sacrifice that simply didn’t have animals. The point is that there appears to have been a process for trading for a common thing that represented an acceptable sacrifice and people were expected to trade what they had in order to obtain that acceptable thing, they could then make their sacrifice.

EDITED: To tie this nonsense back into what I said earlier. Am I called to exchange what I have for something else in order to provide service that the church finds acceptable? If I make this trade am I favoring acceptance by my fellow man over acceptance by my god? Is god calling me to sacrifice my will by asking me to offer up something that’s different than what I want to offer up or is god calling me to sacrifice myself, give my unique talents where I may? Going back to Cain, how do I give my best unless I’m serving in a way that meets my talents? Cain could have offered his best fruit because he was a tiller of the ground. If he gave his best fruit would it have been acceptable or would he need to bring something foreign to his talents to the table? Sacrifice does imply giving up something.

I’m not sure if there’s a coherent thought in there. I apologize for the length, I didn’t intend this post to be so long. Chalk it up to nibbler “Messin’ with Sasquatch” one Sunday. 😳

[Anonymous]

Thinking on this, will definitely put my 2cents in later.

[Anonymous]

I’ve thought about this in the past, too, Nibbler. It has always seemed a bit unfair to me that Cain was a tiller of the earth so that he may not have had the asked for offering on hand but offering what he did have was not acceptable. In more modern sacrifice, the Lord seems to accept whatever we offer – which was more especially true in the earlier days of the church when you could actually give a part of your crop or eggs or milk or whatever as tithing. I have always had a hard time seeing the difference, although I do understand the part about it not being what was asked for. I’ve also always been unclear about what parts of that whole story are LDS teaching/theology as opposed to mainstream Christian or Jewish thought (but not enough so that I have researched it).

I do think it’s interesting that you brought in the idea that it might just have been Cain’s perception that his offering wasn’t worthy. I certainly think that’s possible, and I see that happening all the time in my own ward and stake. Some people have serious issues in that respect. Again, I get that we can never do or give enough to pay the price – but that’s the whole point of the atonement.

In this, like other things, I do what I think is right and try my best and hope.

[Anonymous]

Excellent reflection, nibbler. There is a lot to consider in your post, and I like the self-criticism aspect a lot.

As to the story itself, I like the old Jewish view that Cain’s offering was rejected simply because it was Satan who orchestrated it – that Cain was a follower of the devil not of God. That comes from his killing of Abel and the subsequent descriptions of his interactions with Satan.

I think it’s all mythological, so I look for the moral of the story and don’t obsess over the details (like exactly what was offered). The key statement is from Genesis 4:7 –

Quote:

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

The story also does NOT say that God rejected Cain; rather, it says God did not respect Cain’s offering. It was Cain who then got so upset (was wroth) that he killed Abel. It’s like he was saying, “You don’t respect me and respect my little brother, instead? I’ll show you and everyone else that I am the man!” That seems to be a major, on-going theme in the Bible – that the birthright doesn’t guarantee future rule and that wicked older brothers treat their more righteous younger brothers badly.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

In more modern sacrifice, the Lord seems to accept whatever we offer – which was more especially true in the earlier days of the church when you could actually give a part of your crop or eggs or milk or whatever as tithing. .

Not super relevant to the conversation but I think it’s kind of quirky and cool. A teenager in a neighboring ward raises bees as a part time job. He literally paid his tithing in jars of honey and the church did accept it.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, that’s what got me thinking, was Cain’s offering not respected by his peers, creating sibling rivalry; or was it all in his mind. Like he didn’t think it was respected but everyone else was fine with it. Maybe his take was highly influenced by his own biases. The seeds of discord were already present and the offering was just an excuse.

I also see it as mythological but I tend to obsess over the details all the same. The devil is in the details. 😈 But seriously – fixating on details, even with mythological stories like these, sometimes helps me on my path of self discovery. The details that leap out at me are probably telling me something about myself. I.e. why does one facet stick out more than another? I think the putty I use to fill the gaps in the narrative is also very telling.

DJ, that tithing angle also occurred to me while thinking through things. People have largely moved away from bartering/trading and we have that common base called money nowadays. Kids, am I right? Even time is considered money.

Thanks for the reminder of the atonement. Thinking about how that factors into the narrative was completely absent when I was mulling things over.

Thanks for the comments, I wasn’t sure about this post. StayLDS isn’t my blog and the post felt a little wordy. 😳 I’m usually pretty good about talking myself out of creating threads.

Roadrunner wrote:

Not super relevant to the conversation but I think it’s kind of quirky and cool. A teenager in a neighboring ward raises bees as a part time job. He literally paid his tithing in jars of honey and the church did accept it.

:thumbup: :thumbup:

[Anonymous]

Roadrunner wrote:

Not super relevant to the conversation but I think it’s kind of quirky and cool. A teenager in a neighboring ward raises bees as a part time job. He literally paid his tithing in jars of honey and the church did accept it.

Sweet! (pun intended)

[Anonymous]

Well done everyone. My points have been covered. Thanks. I really like the Cain story – allegory. It is one of my inspiration stories.

Beyond all the points made here the point that stands out through the telling is Gods willingness to work with Cain, even in the midst of murder. No matter how grievous the act, or the intent behind it God kept a place for Cain. Even the marking on the skin (whatever it was), the marking was placed so that others would not harm Cain, but leave what punishments there were between Cain and God. We never get to read much of the rest of Cains story, his son was Enoch, he built a city. In short they thrived. Did Cain have regret? Did God work with him? We don’t know. But I like to think God kept connected. He would bless Adam and Eve with Seth and bless Cain with posterity and potential. This is the God I look for. The God I hope I will be.

[Author]

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