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I need some support. 
DH might be attending BYU in the near future. He would be getting his Master of Divinity. He also has teaching in his future life plans .. years down the road.
I have expressed not wanting to move to Utah. ( Or really wanting to be on or around BYU for that matter ) I honestly don’t think I can deal with the Culture Shock. I have also tried to express that teaching might only be available to limited schools … Assuming some colleges might look at the BYU degree ( For Master of Divinity of all things ) and .. Well not even give him a chance.
Besides not wanting to be at the BYU campus for at least three years .. I also don’t want to be stuck there my whole life – Being that maybe his best shot at a teaching career would be around there. Am I jumping to conclusions? Am I in the wrong for expressing that I flat out want to stay out of LDS dominated territory? Am I blowing it up to more than what it might be? I have horrible fear that DH will find a “More Righteous” Mormon girl … I know it sounds silly but I really do fear that … With everything that is going on it scares me to death.
Quote:“Am I jumping to conclusions?”
To a degree, yes, you are. There are real issues for you that probably will arise, but there are some wonderful people at and around BYU, as well. This might be a real trial; it might be a huge blessing; it probably will be a mixture of both, if it happens and if you let it be.
Quote:“Am I in the wrong for expressing that I flat out want to stay out of LDS dominated territory?”
Nobody can answer that except you, but I think you might be wrong to close the door completely – when his education and job are at stake, as well. You are in a marriage, and that means compromise – hopefully by both of you, but often for only one of you at any given time. Perhaps a compromise would be getting a degree there but agreeing to work anywhere else where there is an opportunity once he graduates.
Quote:“Am I blowing it up to more than what it might be?”
What it “might” be? Absolutely. What it “will” be? There is no way to tell for sure.
Quote:“I have horrible fear that DH will find a “More Righteous” Mormon girl … I know it sounds silly but I really do fear that … With everything that is going on it scares me to death.”
That is a whole separate issue and has NOTHING to do with where you live and where he attends school. If your marriage falls apart, it will not be because of location. If you keep him from what he really wants to do as a result of that concern alone . . . it likely will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Have you shared ANY of this with him?
Thank you Ray. Yes, I have let him know about all of my worries. There are also a couple of things in the Honor Code that don’t sit well with me – But it is their school, they make the rules. I know the “more righteous” wife could happen anywhere … But he let me know .. He wasn’t going to trade me in until I was much, much older. I feel for you LaLaLove. I went to BYU and in some ways wish I could go back. I really loved the environment (although I was TBM at the time). From my perspective now, I would still go back. It’s generally a very nice community, especially if you’re already married. I think it’s the singles who experience most of the culture problems. Furthermore, even when I was TBM, I was still a bit heterodox, so I ignored most of the cultural nonsense that went on. Lots of eye rolling even when I was at church. In an environment like BYU it becomes very easy to separate folklore, and culture, from the doctrines of the Gospel. The differences are very pronounced. On a more intellectual note (appealing to me, maybe not for you) I would relish the opportunity to get to the Harold B. Lee Library and do some more Mormon studies. I did NOT, I repeat did NOT do anything in this vein when I was there. I was solely focused on my engineering degree and moving on. So I took easy religion classes, and never perused the more difficult issues in the church. I wish I had that opportunity now.
jmb275 brings up some good points. There are some good things about BYU and for the most part, I have fond memories of it. One thing I remember is that there are so many members of the church, there seemed to be the full spectrum and variety, so I always felt I could find someone I could get along with. Major zealous TBMs I could be nice to, but usually didn’t hang out with. Partying and rebelious mormons usually didn’t make me feel comfortable either. I remember finding many people who were from the East Coast where I grew up and were similar to me in many ways, and so I felt comfortable around them.
I remember there being lots of different types of mormons, and I could find an environment I was comfortable in.
Just my thoughts.
Most importantly is if your family can be together and be happy and unified in the direction you are going, no matter where you live.
I’m from the East Coast ( New England ). Some of my ways of thinking are different from my DH who grew up in AZ. Funny that you mention that. LaLaLove wrote:Some of my ways of thinking are different from my DH who grew up in AZ.
This is what makes a marriage work (if you let it), and be a very powerful agent for our growth as humans. It also provides a spectacular environment for raising good, well adjusted children who won’t grow up to be homophobic, xenophobic bigots.You have a right to be concerned, but I think you are in a very fun and exciting position if you will allow yourself to look on the positive side of things. Easier said than done I know
LaLaLove wrote:I’m from the East Coast ( New England ). Some of my ways of thinking are different from my DH who grew up in AZ. Funny that you mention that.
…I thought I liked you for a reason!
Differences can be complimentary in a relationship if you embrace the good from both backgrounds and eject the less than ideal.
I didn’t seek out the east coasters when I was at BYU, I just seemed to gravitate towards them (best friend from Maryland, wife from Virginia, etc).
Hey LaLaLove! I dont know anything about BYU or have experience there, however I wanted to say that maybe the issue actually goes deeper than you think. I hope you dont mind me saying this, but I dont think the location would be the issue at hand, more the relationship between yourself and your DH. I have noticed several posts by yourself where you mention a fustration with your DH or a difference. Maybe this is the real underlying problem?
Marriage whether it involves religion or not is a compromise. As I said I dont know anything about BYU but I would imagine it is the same as any university really – having a variety of people/personalities etc. There will be some people you do not get along with, but there will likely be many more that you would get along with…and it would help your husbands career in the future (and therefore your family). It may turn out to be the best experience of your life. There will be hard times, like there is no matter where you are in the world…but there will be good times, but the most important thing is to be happy with your husband and to enjoy your relationship.
From what you have said about your husbands reply to your feelings, I would say he loves you very much and you have nothing to worry about!
Hope this is of some help to you!
I can’t add much to the analysis and recommendations so far. I think separating the relationship issues from the location issues will be an important process. I attended BYU for 1 year right after high school. It was back in the late 1980’s. I attached a picture from those days to this reply. It is me and a couple of my good friends in front of Heleman Halls. Yes, there are a LOT of traditional “TBM” mormons at BYU. It is a really big place though. I had no problem finding people of a like mind (as you will see in the picture, hehe) who became really good friends. In fact, I would say that fact we did not really “fit in” with the general culture made for very close bonds. There were lots of interesting people at BYU back then. I am sure that has not changed. If you do end up going there with your DH, you will find people you like. I remember BYU as a very positive place. Yes, I was definately not like a lot of people. People were generally nice though. It was fun being a little “wierd.”
I met my DW there (not in the pic). She was in my same close group of friends (not a product of the cookie cutter culture). The guy on the left, one of my best friends, wasn’t even a Christian. His parents were Zoroastrians from Pakistan. They sent him to BYU from Ohio because of the reputation that BYU was
NOTa “party school” and had almost zero tolerance for that kind of behavior. They didn’t want to waste their money sending their son to college to drink and party. Isn’t that funny 😆 😆 😆 .NotSure2008 wrote:Hey LaLaLove!
I dont know anything about BYU or have experience there, however I wanted to say that maybe the issue actually goes deeper than you think. I hope you dont mind me saying this, but I dont think the location would be the issue at hand, more the relationship between yourself and your DH. I have noticed several posts by yourself where you mention a fustration with your DH or a difference. Maybe this is the real underlying problem?
Marriage whether it involves religion or not is a compromise. As I said I dont know anything about BYU but I would imagine it is the same as any university really – having a variety of people/personalities etc. There will be some people you do not get along with, but there will likely be many more that you would get along with…and it would help your husbands career in the future (and therefore your family). It may turn out to be the best experience of your life. There will be hard times, like there is no matter where you are in the world…but there will be good times, but the most important thing is to be happy with your husband and to enjoy your relationship.
From what you have said about your husbands reply to your feelings, I would say he loves you very much and you have nothing to worry about!
Hope this is of some help to you!
There definately are deeper issues. The main being my dissafection with the Church AND DH’s desire for the ideal Mormon family ( with 4 kids under 6 ) that he sees happily sitting in Church week by week. – I’m starting to not see where I fit in.DH has strong opinions , I have strong opinions – I can’t pretend to agree with Church policy/thought/etc when I don’t – which seems to be adding up pretty quickly..I guess I forsee many arguments.
My worries of Provo have come to me by none other than DH himself and other TBMs – Saying things like “Utah Mormons are really judgemental – all cookie cutter … I would never move there etc …. ” – Now all of the sudden I’m going to be there for three plus years.
DH does love me ! He also loves what the Church thinks I should be/do and think. – A Church that I’m finding hard to trust these days.
Valoel wrote:I can’t add much to the analysis and recommendations so far. I think separating the relationship issues from the location issues will be an important process.
I attended BYU for 1 year right after high school. It was back in the late 1980’s. I attached a picture from those days to this reply. It is me and a couple of my good friends in front of Heleman Halls. Yes, there are a LOT of traditional “TBM” mormons at BYU. It is a really big place though. I had no problem finding people of a like mind (as you will see in the picture, hehe) who became really good friends. In fact, I would say that fact we did not really “fit in” with the general culture made for very close bonds. There were lots of interesting people at BYU back then. I am sure that has not changed. If you do end up going there with your DH, you will find people you like. I remember BYU as a very positive place. Yes, I was definately not like a lot of people. People were generally nice though. It was fun being a little “wierd.”
I met my DW there (not in the pic). She was in my same close group of friends (not a product of the cookie cutter culture). The guy on the left, one of my best friends, wasn’t even a Christian. His parents were Zoroastrians from Pakistan. They sent him to BYU from Ohio because of the reputation that BYU was
NOTa “party school” and had almost zero tolerance for that kind of behavior. They didn’t want to waste their money sending their son to college to drink and party. Isn’t that funny 😆 😆 😆 .
I actually love moving and meeting new people. In a way I am excited to fnd some people who I could get along with.The problem isnt BYU – Well I guess it is like a Baptist suddenly finding out they really don’t agree with much things “Baptist” anymore but they have to move to a remote Texas location with 95% Baptists hanging around …
Right now I live in a small city – Most of the members are so sweet – very humble – no one is really rich or trying to keep up – They don’t bother me and come to my house unannounced … They are all about 40 + years older than me. Back in Colorado the members were younger – constantly gossiping – kind of judgemental – One overzealous member would stop by my work ALL the time .. and my house unannounced – People seemed fake.
I can almost deal with fake one day a week – But I can’t deal with fake constantly..I’ll just become angry and judgemental ( exactly who I don’t want to be.)
But I guess this could happen and maybe it won’t! I will try it out and try my best to be positive – Right now I’m going off of other TBM’s opinions of the BYU area.
The picture is cool! Nice style!
I hesitated to respond to this because I am not neutral and unbiased, and I’m probably not in a position to give a very positive viewpoint of this. I was not a big BYU fan. Once I graduated, I did not set foot in Utah County for the next 10 years despite living in Salt Lake City. SLC was actually fine, IMO, and I didn’t experience any of the same issues I had with Utah County. I’m older now, and have simmered down considerably, but I still don’t know if I would want to handle living there or Mesa either (which is similar from what I can tell). I am admittedly probably overreacting, but I went to a sacrament meeting in Lehi a few years ago, and the main talk was a man talking about how women should wear pantyhose and about flip flops being inappropriate for church. It was just so trivial and judgmental and not spiritual nor edifying.
Like Valoel, being at BYU wasn’t so awful per se, especially because it was college and I could just be myself. Within my major I found a lot of great people and diversity of thought. It was really the surrounding Utah County culture I found objectionable. The students I met from towns in Utah County were generally very judgmental and cookie-cutter OR in a few cases, they had gone completely off the deep end to rebel against the confining culture. They judged a lot based on appearance (did you dress like they do, did you wear your hair the way they did, and did you talk like they do), and they could not distinguish between culture and the gospel. I know that’s a sweeping generalization that can’t be true of all people, but it was time and again my experience. That was clearly a while ago, so things may be better now. I was beyond culture-shocked, being from PA.
I would totally recommend living there if you are someone who wants your kids to marry in the temple and if you don’t mind those UT cultural norms. But if you are having difficulty with the cultural aspect, this isn’t the test tube to play that out. It can drive a wedge into your marriage if you and your husband don’t react the same. If your kids are prone to rebel against confining cultural norms and rules, they could easily get into problems with promiscuity, drugs, and behavioral acting out when they are teens. (If your kids are too young to gauge that, look at your own and your husband’s teen years to determine). But if your kids will thrive with the support of like-minded cookie cutter EFY-loving peers, this is probably a great place to raise your kids.
If your husband is dead set on this and you feel the need to compromise, don’t buy a house until you’ve test driven the ward several weeks. If you can’t find a ward that suits you both in UT county, suggest living in Draper or Sandy or somewhere else in South SLC, and he can drive to school from there. It’s a buyer’s market. Take your time.
hawkgrrrl wrote:
It was just so trivial and judgmental and not spiritual nor edifying.
I worry about this.
hawkgrrrl wrote:
They judged a lot based on appearance (did you dress like they do, did you wear your hair the way they did, and did you talk like they do), and they could not distinguish between culture and the gospel. I was beyond culture-shocked, being from PA.
I’m really worried about Culture Shock.
hawkgrrrl wrote:
But if you are having difficulty with the cultural aspect, this isn’t the test tube to play that out. It can drive a wedge into your marriage if you and your husband don’t react the same.
This is what I REALLY worry about – The unneeded wedge .. B/C I can see it possibly happening.
hawkgrrrl wrote:
If your husband is dead set on this and you feel the need to compromise, don’t buy a house until you’ve test driven the ward several weeks. If you can’t find a ward that suits you both in UT county, suggest living in Draper or Sandy or somewhere else in South SLC, and he can drive to school from there. It’s a buyer’s market. Take your time.
We are most likely going to go if everything works out .. But we will not be buying a house! Just renting .. And our child is practically a newborn! I have already made it clear I want our kids to attend school outside of Utah ( and a few other states ) for that matter.Thanks for that opinion b/c I knew it existed , I know many people who would rather distance themselves from the strict culture .. Than live in the middle of it.
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