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Last week I dropped my daughter off at BYU – she’s a freshman and is fairly liberal so she notices sexist comments and issues. She was at some sort of orientation and the student who was training them said something along the lines of: if you get sexually assaulted you won’t get an honor code infraction even if you’re doing something else wrong. However, you can still get kicked out of the university without an honor code infraction, so best just stay out of trouble.
It’s a decidedly mixed message. I’m not sure how broadly this particular message is getting shared – it may be this one instance of orientation not said correctly, but it’s disappointing. I thought we took care of all this already.
Heart breaking. I won’t rant on about foot ball player privileges.
Unfortunately, it’s not just the honor code office that can kick you out, but your bishop can also revoke your ecclesiastical endorsement if he sees fit, effectively kicking you out of the university. So the honor code office won’t punish sexual assault victims, but if your bishop finds out you did something else wrong, it goes back to leadership roulette. This very issue has occurred at BYU-I. I can get a link if someone is interested. Yeah, the ecclesiastical endorsement is practically a temple recommend required to go to BYU. And it’s not just commandments like the Law of Chastity, Word of Wisdom, tithing, etc that’ll get you kicked out. Don’t attend Church every Sunday? That can get you booted. Stop believing in some of the core doctrines/ become disaffected with the Church? That’ll get you booted too. I think it’s kind of funny, kind of sad, how you can get into BYU as a Muslim (at higher tuition fees), but if you convert from LDS to Islam they WILL kick you out. And it’s not like you can just transfer to another university no problem… all those required religious credits are NOT going to transfer. And you better take a religious class each semester, because if you don’t, you are required to go to institute, and if you don’t do that either, that could put your ecclesiastical endorsement in jeopardy as well (subject to leadership roulette).
What even most members don’t realize, is that BYU serves a single purpose. It’s not to get an education; that’s just a means to an end. It’s to churn out members who are loyal to the Church, “building up the kingdom of God”. If you deviate from that express purpose, the Church will disavow you.
“so best just stay out of trouble” Never a good way to end a thought on people being sexually assaulted. It feels too much like indirect victim blaming.
I guess I realized that bishop roulette was a risk and that he could revoke an ecclesiastical endorsement at any time, but I surprised that it was verbally stated to just stay out of trouble. Like others have said it’s still victim blaming. Athlete privilege rankles me too. Sounds like this person may have been giving a “word to the wise.” At my workplace the handbook talks about bringing in a Dr. note to request light duty. Unfortunately my department does not offer light duty. So people see the Dr. and bring in a note with “restrictions” and end up with a medical termination (meaning they can reapply as soon as they are healthy).
“Word to the wise” would be that if you bring in a Dr. note for light duty and your department does not offer light duty, you just quit your job.
Unfortunately, this can lead to people not reporting medical conditions for fear of losing their jobs – or, tying this back to BYU, not reporting sexual assault for fear of being kicked out.
dande48 wrote:What even most members don’t realize, is that BYU serves a single purpose. It’s not to get an education; that’s just a means to an end. It’s to churn out members who are loyal to the Church, “building up the kingdom of God”. If you deviate from that express purpose, the Church will disavow you.
No, not a single purpose – it is a marriage market too perhaps. I do believe that it is genuinely there for secular education besides all that – it is nowhere near being the worst university in the USA, and many of its qualifications are as valuable as any other mid-league university. Oh and true to the American tradition, it seems to do okay in terms of sport.
I would have much preferred to go to BYU than my own college.
My university was a place where you were lucky to meet anyone once they went out the door of the tutorial or lecture theater… and as and when we did have any social life, it involved getting wasted, going around some of the nastiest night clubs imaginable and waking up hungover the next morning.
The only thing I would miss would be sex but to be honest there was never much of that… and I only ever got involved with one woman I liked for a few months in all the three and a bit years I was there. Oh and the students were desperately depressed – people would throw themselves off the buildings of our college on a regular basis.
If I’d gone to BYU, I think there would be more of a community and despite all the bans, more to do. I was actually a pretty mean rugby player in my day, and I’m sure I could have made some friends there, but without all the usual rubbish which happens in rugby clubs.
SamBee wrote:
No, not a single purpose – it is a marriage market too perhaps. I do believe that it is genuinely there for secular education besides all that – it is nowhere near being the worst university in the USA, and many of its qualifications are as valuable as any other mid-league university.
Marriage is also a means to an end. If you’re married, you’re more likely to keep the LoC, remain active, have children who will remain active, pay tithing (and more of it), etc. It always gets its word in on secular education, and teachers make a point of tying the gospel to everything. Nothing remains untouched. But you’re right, it’s not the worst university.
SamBee wrote:
Oh and the students were desperately depressed – people would throw themselves off the buildings of our college on a regular basis.
There was a guy who completed suicide in my building, within the first two weeks of my time at BYU. It was AMAZING how well they covered it up.
dande48 wrote:SamBee wrote:
Oh and the students were desperately depressed – people would throw themselves off the buildings of our college on a regular basis.
There was a guy who completed suicide in my building, within the first two weeks of my time at BYU. It was AMAZING how well they covered it up.
I’m sure they did. Many universities would do the same… a variety of reasons why – not to upset other students, and also to avoid bad publicity. My high school used to cover up incidents all the time (though I think suicides were uncommon). A school I went to as a pre-teen covered up sexual abuse.
At my college, they had to deal with would be jumpers at least every two weeks. It got so bad that they had to lock up the top two floors of the building I used to go to (which was quite old)
Suicide and mental health are challenges at all universities TBH. I think my university was really bad at supporting people – it was partly the total lack of community other than occasional drinking. I actually started up and ran the biggest non-sporta club to try and do my bit… the support was rotten.
wrote:
There was a guy who completed suicide in my building, within the first two weeks of my time at BYU. It was AMAZING how well they covered it up.
While I think BYU has some maturing to do, my experience with this subject while at BYU was different. A guy in our same dorm complex committed suicide and parents were notified by letter (this was before email) and it was brought up at church and discussed. I felt at the time, and still do, that they did a credible job of trying to help us cope and also understand that suicide is a not a good solution, no matter how much pressure we feel.
That being said, I don’t know how it’s been treated in the last 20 years.
Suicide’s a hard thing to handle. It seems to be the source of many ghost stories and many people don’t like sleeping in rooms where people have died, although of course many of us have, knowingly or unknowingly. If you’ve slept in a hospital ward, you’re very likely to have done so.
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