- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
It would be nice if in a few yeards you come back and post how it went so others can learn from this. To RoadRunner; That is a good idea. I hope to remember to post the results.
There was one thing that made her/me feel concerned about BYU
censorship.I would like the college not to hide or cover up as if there is no such thing as nude arts or new world philosophies, real issues within our church or society and such; and pretend they do not exist. none of us is that holy, none of us lives idealistic life with deep gratitude every minute, and no country is without problems, yet we are supposed to live with complete serenity and bury issues as they are not existed.
Instead of trying to hide, I want educators to lead discussion and help the young people to come up with h/er own conclusion.While doing that, the professors can guide young people to discern good from bad, not just superficially touch, or give them exact politically collect answer, or avoid altogether. This is the only way that they can reach the adult level ability of true discernment. I want my daughter to internalize ideas/concepts to develop her critical thinking ability.
While DH was attending Ricks College taking a course called, Social Problems, since it was a very last class this particular professor was to teach just before his retirement, he announced the whole class in the beginning that he will teach the class in a way he was not allowed for entire teaching career there.
He knew that he was retiring so the school can not fire him; there was nothing to risk.
He said, ” I am going to teach you the materials I wanted to share with my students for all these years but couldn’t.”
He showed the class images, videos and articles (all pretty graphic) of true nature our our society and its issues, followed by Socratic discussion. It was a real learning and the best class he had had in the college.
So far, everyone in the ward had an eye-brow raised reaction to our decision, risking our daughter to be devoured by wolves. Choosing worldly school over the “Lord’s college” is unthinkable that we have been out of our minds. They said how wicked the student body of Michigan is. But I know there are many religious students there as well. She will have to learn to discern out of necessity.
I’m not criticizing your decision nor am I defending BYU, but I will say that BYU Provo is not BYU-I/Ricks, and it’s 2016, not 1990. My son came back from his first semester at BYU firmly believing in evolution. I think they might be a bit more free to teach than what you may perceive. He has been impressed with the religion professor he currently has – the guy has been willing to address some issues head on and does not just spit back the party line. Just saying. DarkJedi, I have to disagree. In 2016, you are impressed that BYU would teach EVOLUTION??!!!! They taught that theory back in the 1980’s in the science departments — but not in the religion departments. I have been told that split hasn’t changed.
The professors are censored. American history is taught from a LDS centeric viewpoint. The church influence in western expansion was huge — Irving Stone’s Men To Match My Mountains is a wonderful read about that. But the church had very little influence in the East. To hear history explained at BYU, one gets a very distorted view.
kittylover wrote:So far, everyone in the ward had an eye-brow raised reaction to our decision, risking our daughter to be devoured by wolves.
If she is going to the University of Michigan, wouldn’t that be “wolverines:?
Best of luck to your Daughter and all of your family.
amateurparent wrote:DarkJedi, I have to disagree.
In 2016, you are impressed that BYU would teach EVOLUTION??!!!! They taught that theory back in the 1980’s in the science departments — but not in the religion departments. I have been told that split hasn’t changed.
The professors are censored. American history is taught from a LDS centeric viewpoint. The church influence in western expansion was huge — Irving Stone’s Men To Match My Mountains is a wonderful read about that. But the church had very little influence in the East. To hear history explained at BYU, one gets a very distorted view.
As a teacher of history let me just say two things:
1. History is
alwaystaught from the point of view of the predominate culture of where it is being taught. Do you think a student in Iraq, China or Chile gets the same story I got going to college in Pennsylvania? 2. Six credits of college history (and many more, actually) do not even begin to scratch the surface of the story – it is not possible to tell the complete story.
And, in my college experience I got very little in the way of cross-disciplinary instruction. That is, my geology teachers didn’t talk about history and my literature teachers didn’t talk about biology. Religion classes are what they are. And I was much more impressed with the religion professor my son currently has than that they taught evolutionary biology.
The point was that there was an undertone being presented that BYU does not teach a breadth of academics and the opportunities there are limited – that is just not true (but again I’m not defending BYU).
kittylover wrote:So far, everyone in the ward had an eye-brow raised reaction to our decision, risking our daughter to be devoured by wolves. Choosing worldly school over the “Lord’s college” is unthinkable that we have been out of our minds. They said how wicked the student body of Michigan is. But I know there are many religious students there as well.
She will have to learn to discern out of necessity. That’s an important skill to learn. Everyone has to learn how to live among the wolves at some point in their lives, IMO the sooner the better.
My daughter just got accepted at BYU-P. For her, it’s a good fit because she’s bought into the whole Mormon culture. Ultimately, it’s your daughter’s decision even if you might be paying for it. The fact that she’s going to live at home would make me feel a lot better about going to the Michigan school. It’s living in the dorms and unsupervised which I think is part of the reason people get exposed to all the bad stuff, although it could happen when the student lives at home.
I don’t really have an answer, just questions and a couple comments:
a) What is more important — the financial savings of living close to home, or going to BYU?
b) How much of an “individual” is your daughter in terms of living her life according to the beat of her own drum? If she is good at it, then she might adapt OK to BYU.
c) Does she want to marry in the church? If so, I think BYU is the better choice, and she can hold out as long as she wants with accepting marriage proposals — but the odds of meeting someone who is LDS are obviously far greater in Utah than in Michigan. Also, if you meet the right person, then timing is less important, in my experience.
d) How transferable are credits from BYU to Michigan? If there is decent tranferrability, maybe it would be good to try it for a year and see how it goes at BYU-P.
e) I also think the cystic acne is likely to affect dating the same whether in Utah or Michigan (or not at all if she has other good fundamentals in personality and other characteristics) — people go on dates in both states, so I don’t see that as an important variable. And even if is a problem at BYU, testing it there for the year might help her figur out how much of a concern it is.
The thing that concerns me is the way your sons have reacted, so I wonder if your daughter might have similar tendencies, which makes me want to favor BYU>
We’ve found out none of her BYU credits in her MAJOR field would transfer to Michigan. None! Some GEs will transfer (but she is already finished first two years of college through dual enrollment system) . So her heart was set for Michigan, then last week, she’s received a Talent Award which reduces the tuition even less (a lot less) expensive.
First of all, I was very annoyed by the fact it came so late (after their semester had ended! They seems so slow in everything….)But, Gee, this is so cheap, no school is this cheap. It is very tempting to pick Y.
OK, she can still go to Y. We can save so much money. However, we are not sure about the program. She is going into Art which is heavily censored by the university. She submitted so many drawings of nude for the award. Apparently the faculties did not mind. But I warned her that she can’t do it anymore (she loves nudes!! Her nude drawings are breath takingly beautiful.) at BYU. The models wear tiny bikinis, but that is still not the same as complete nude. At BYU, life drawing is just learning about the human figure, not for creating it to be a piece of art. The figures the students draw seem rather identical and seem like all the models are at peace. There is no drama in the drawings, just nice, politically correct rendering.
She can be creative. as long her work does not offend “anyone”, that include conservative students, mothers with young children, anyone from community, in addition to the administrators.
She is weighing two options between cheap tuition with censorship and higher tuition with freedom.
She’s already has a client to purchase her figurative work and her graphic novel in foreign language is on a way. Do you think BYU is a good fit for her?
kittylover wrote:We’ve found out none of her BYU credits in her MAJOR field would transfer to Michigan. None! Some GEs will transfer (but she is already finished first two years of college through dual enrollment system) .
So her heart was set for Michigan, then last week, she’s received a Talent Award which reduces the tuition even less (a lot less) expensive.
First of all, I was very annoyed by the fact it came so late (after their semester had ended! They seems so slow in everything….)But, Gee, this is so cheap, no school is this cheap. It is very tempting to pick Y.
OK, she can still go to Y. We can save so much money. However, we are not sure about the program. She is going into Art which is heavily censored by the university. She submitted so many drawings of nude for the award. Apparently the faculties did not mind. But I warned her that she can’t do it anymore (she loves nudes!! Her nude drawings are breath takingly beautiful.) at BYU. The models wear tiny bikinis, but that is still not the same as complete nude. At BYU, life drawing is just learning about the human figure, not for creating it to be a piece of art. The figures the students draw seem rather identical and seem like all the models are at peace. There is no drama in the drawings, just nice, politically correct rendering.
She can be creative. as long her work does not offend “anyone”, that include conservative students, mothers with young children, anyone from community, in addition to the administrators.
She is weighing two options between cheap tuition with censorship and higher tuition with freedom.
She’s already has a client to purchase her figurative work and her graphic novel in foreign language is on a way.
Do you think BYU is a good fit for her?Probably not.
You’re comparing a religious institution with a secular institution and they’re not exactly apples to apples. I suppose it’s more like apples and pears or perhaps comparing a red delicious to a granny smith – you wouldn’t make a pie with the red delicious. If you’re going to go to a place like BYU, Baylor, or Notre Dame (for example) you have to expect that there is going to be some influence of the respective religion including taking religion classes and attending religious services. When you accept admission at BYU you agree to do things on their terms – it is a private institution as opposed to a public institution. Our local school district has to accept any student living within its boundaries, regardless of any other factors including US citizenship. Likewise, our school has to teach the state prescribed curriculum. That’s the law. We have two local private schools, one Catholic and the other Christian (run by a Baptist church). They can accept or not accept anyone they want, and if someone isn’t living up to their expectations they can show them the door any time they like. Furthermore, they can choose what they teach and how they teach it, including requiring religious participation. The Christian school teaches creationism and not evolution, for instance, and does not participate in the state testing program. Anyone can be as indignant as they want about the Christian school not teaching evolution and how ridiculous it is to believe the earth was created in 6 days 6,000 years ago, but that doesn’t change their right to do so – and no one is forced to go there. The same is true at BYU – if you think their curriculum for your major is limited or restricted because of religion or you don’t want to have to take religion courses, then don’t go there – you have literally hundreds of other choices.
I can see where you’re coming from with art, and I think that situation is rather unique. Frankly, not everyone is hung up on painting nudes (and some would probably not want to paint nudes at all) and it won’t matter to them. I suppose if someone planned to major in music but really wanted to be a vulgar rapper, the same would be true and BYU would not be for them. The vast majority of engineers, psychologists, teachers, nurses, wildlife conservationists, economists, etc., just aren’t going to encounter that kind of “censorship” (and I use that in quotes because I don’t believe it’s really censorship in the classic definition of the word).
I can be be blunt sometimes, the whole dark side thing as it were (most people here have already figured that out). It’s clear you don’t want your daughter to go to BYU. You’ve done nothing but find fault with the institution. It’s not all about money, if it were everyone would go there (I mean that, BYU is actually cheaper than a state school where I live). If you don’t want her to go there then don’t make either of you (or them) miserable by sending her there.
Given what you have said, I only have one question, asked in isolation and ignoring all the other comments so far: Where does she want to go, and why?
I told each of my kids I would not dictate where they went to school, even though they could have attended each institution where I have worked tuition-free. It was the best decision I could have made. I suggest you do the same.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.