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As many have read before, my faith crisis came about essentially after years of enduring psychological/ emotional abuse from mostly my first marriage, and after priesthood counseling from several different leaders pushed me into staying in that marriage until irreparable damage was done on my life and my children. The other factor was that I had received several very specifically worded priesthood blessings that were not fulfilled regarding that marriage. I sincerely tried to do my absolute best to perfect myself and follow the Mormon rules. My faith crisis was further compounded when I remarried and chose for my second marriage an even more abusive husband. I have been trying to reconcile my faith issues for years. It was in particular very hard because as a TBM, I was taught that if someone fell away from the church, it was because they were sinning, and I knew with a clean conscience that I had been truly doing my best. While not perfect by far, I was guilty of nothing serious, and did read scriptures and pray and fast and tithe and all that. I KNEW it wasn’t that I didn’t try hard enough. In my mind it was very clear. I had done my part. The blessings I believed in and held onto so dear for so long were not fulfilled on GOD’s end. If it was true that I just barely missed the dangling carrot just beyond my reach because I didn’t try just hard enough… well I eventually figured I didn’t want to follow that God, As hard as I tried I could not make the apologetics work. I believed the blessings and what I had “known” to be personal revelation. And it didn’t work. It wasn’t just “people exercising agency.” It was the whole idea of personal revelation and prophecy as I had been taught since I was a child about the church. And if personal revelation and SOO many priesthood leaders were SOO far off base how is it the prophets supported the practice of pushing those things so hard?? (More probably in older days than now but still.) Anyway… I have been working hard at self discovery and healing in as many ways as I could. After conversing with many others and reading stories and being open minded and really listening to others’ faith crises, I discovered that the cause for many others’ were also due to being victims of long term abuse, even when they don’t admit ready and openly as the main or original cause. Does it seem obvious? People whose worlds have proven unsafe have trouble believing in the Loving Father that helps other people in sacrament meeting find their lost keys. Yeah I got that.
BUT… there is more. There is a clinically diagnosable psychological injury that is common when people have been long term victims of abuse. It is Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It is similar but different from the PTSD that people from singular traumas or short term traumas often develop. I have come to recognize that my children and I suffer from this. It manifests differently depending on whether the abuse happened as an adult or as a child. Mine is mostly from my adult experiences.
There are 6 clusters of symptoms suggested for diagnosis of C-PTSD.
(1) alterations in regulation of affect and impulses
(2) alterations in attention or consciousness
(3) alterations in self-perception
(4) alterations in relations with others
(5) somatization
(6) alterations in systems of meaning
Did you catch #6? As I read about this issue it hit me as an epiphany. Alterations in systems of meaning=faith crises. So I started reading on C-PTSD and faith crisis issues. What I have concluded is essentially this: it would be psychologically very difficult if not impossible for sufferers of C-PTSD to NOT have a faith crises. There is much to read on this if you google it but I liked some particular personal thoughts from a blogger at
http://anxietyland.blogspot.com/2009/11/complex-ptsd-and-crisis-of-faith-part.html So then my thought process turned… if it is a clinically diagnosable injury that millions have… is it as much of a choice as LDS common thinking teaches us? It seems to me to be a valid psychological REASON- NOT EXCUSE. Every leader or person who I have talked to and tried to explain my feelings to in the church so far have dismissed, discredited and invalidated me by saying things like I lost faith due to letting doubt take root, by committing sin, or in some way have essentially said it was my choice and I just need to repent and I will get better. But I don’t think so. I didn’t want this. I didn’t choose this. I did everything I could to head it off/stop it/repent from it. I know just don’t believe that. Not any more. From what I have seen with other similarly damaged people, I don’t think it’s a choice. I think it is a normal and natural psychological reaction to certain types of injury. It’s like a scarring after a cut. Depends on how deep and how often the injury, but we don’t choose it. I am not saying one cannot choose to be healed from C-PTSD and even from a faith crises caused by it. But I wanted to put that out there because I know that I suffered guilt for “letting” myself doubt. When I sought help from others, their well meaning words just added salt to the wound and made me feel more guilty and pushed me further away. They did not acknowledge my reality. How could they? Their world makes sense to them. They are not psychologists. And most of the time, their God helped them find their lost keys.
My kids have been more or less turning atheist or agnostic to one degree or another to the point that they really don’t want to hear anyone on their soapbox and are almost sickened by how they are excessively pushed and alienated here in Utah because they don’t believe as most others seem to. Now I completely understand there is a real reason why. It may be that it isn’t even possible for them to discover any relationship with God until they conquer their psychological issues. It could be that we can’t bring ourselves to go to church most of the time anymore because at this point we are essentially incapable of making that divine connection. I no longer think that makes us sinners.
It is a shame that people who have suffered such injuries are further alienated by well meaning people trying to convince them to repent. I ponder these days how much choice we have in many “sins” we commit. There are many things I used to see as being choices that I am not longer convinced are choices at all. I reach out there with my findings with empathy and love to any in the same situation. Perhaps such complicated matters as psychological issues shouldn’t be over simplified.
Very interesting! I think you may be onto something for many people who experience such trauma in their lives and then have a faith crisis. Just adds further proof that we do not know what is happening with others. Also I hate when we teach abuse victims that they must forgive immediately or they are the sinners. Nooooo each person will come to that choice in their own time, perhaps not even in this life. RagDoll – thanks for sharing your story (even though it pains me) and your findings. You might have something that explains quite a bit about a certain segment. I hope you are able to come to some sort of peace. I feel for you and your kids. RagDollSallyUT wrote:When I sought help from others, their well meaning words just added salt to the wound and made me feel more guilty and pushed me further away. They did not acknowledge my reality. How could they? Their world makes sense to them. They are not psychologists. And most of the time, their God helped them find their lost keys.
There are lots of Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathites in the world. It’s as you say, their words do more to explain how they fit your situation into their world view than being actual words of comfort.
I know it’s difficult. The difficulties I see:
1) What if you don’t
wantto be with certain family members for eternity? I’ll venture a guess and say that most people can’t relate to that feeling. Most people might be tempted to attribute those feelings as being rooted in simple disagreements, petty differences, and unforgiven foibles (sins); they might not have context for understanding the effects of abuse. It can be difficult swimming against the current of the eternal family doctrine for people that have been opened up to abuse from family members. 2) In my opinion the concepts of mercy and justice crack under that kind of pressure. I do not even know how to begin this discussion but this was what set the stage for my faith crisis. All other issues like history, coverups, etc. were tangential, they really only accelerated the process that was already set in motion. It’s extremely difficult for me to articulate, it’s more felt than understood. I’ll try:
People are judged according to their abilities. Some people, if not all people, may have been born with certain dispositions or may have been raised to act a certain way. Mercy steps in, recognizes that certain things may very well be outside our ability to master, and justice applies according to our best efforts in working with the tools at our disposal.
What happens when the best a person can do still equates to behavior that is abusive towards others? Justice and mercy affords them a path forward. What happens to the victims left in the wake? How do justice and mercy balance out for the victim? We are required to forgive, that is understandable, but in the case of abuse what is the end game that stems from that forgiveness?
I’ve heard that the resurrection will take care of physical frailties. A wand is waved and suddenly the physical tool that we have to work with will be completely righted. Does that mean that if the abuse was rooted in a brain chemical imbalance that the abusive tendencies will suddenly stop? Or does a lifetime of learned behavior carry abusive tendencies forward? Does the person that had a physical impediment that was removed by the resurrection get to advance directly to go or do they then require time to learn with the proper tools in place? If they require time to progress, line upon line, then what was the point of their probationary experience here on earth? Where are the victims in all of this? They can forgive but do they wait for their loved ones to learn how to not be abusive so they can later be reunited? Does forgiveness even mean that the victim will one day attain the desire to be reunited?
It’s a mess but it’s a nice mental exercise. In part it may be my inability to see the abuser as anything other than an abuser because the abuse becomes the dominant trait that has defined them. I’m sure if I could transcend that view it might have real benefits in this life; far, far easier said than done. To be honest, and despite what I said above, these days I’m not concerned about how this will play out in the life to come… for a myriad of reasons.
RagDollSallyUT,
I’d really hate it if I inadvertently threadjacked your thread. I’m glad you posted this. Don’t let Job’s friends get you down.
You and I have shared a lot of this before with each other, but I’ll mention as this part hit me:
Quote:Every leader or person who I have talked to and tried to explain my feelings to in the church so far have dismissed, discredited and invalidated me…
I have come to accept explaining some things to others who haven’t experienced the same things we have is very difficult. It took me a long time to understand that. They simply can’t see it the way we do without the vision that comes through experience.It doesn’t mean you are wrong, just that they aren’t capable of understanding.
That actually applies a lot to religion in general, to those who pass through faith stages and changes, and those who have traveled the path of serious doubt and study of history. Until you find others who walk similar paths, getting them to see things from your perspective can be very difficult. There is no substitute for experience.
RagDollSallyUT wrote:So then my thought process turned… if it is a clinically diagnosable injury that millions have… is it as much of a choice as LDS common thinking teaches us? It seems to me to be a valid psychological REASON- NOT EXCUSE. Every leader or person who I have talked to and tried to explain my feelings to in the church so far have dismissed, discredited and invalidated me by saying things like I lost faith due to letting doubt take root, by committing sin, or in some way have essentially said it was my choice and I just need to repent and I will get better. But I don’t think so. I didn’t want this. I didn’t choose this. I did everything I could to head it off/stop it/repent from it. I know just don’t believe that. Not any more. From what I have seen with other similarly damaged people, I don’t think it’s a choice. I think it is a normal and natural psychological reaction to certain types of injury. It’s like a scarring after a cut. Depends on how deep and how often the injury, but we don’t choose it. I am not saying one cannot choose to be healed from C-PTSD and even from a faith crises caused by it. But I wanted to put that out there because I know that I suffered guilt for “letting” myself doubt. When I sought help from others, their well meaning words just added salt to the wound and made me feel more guilty and pushed me further away. They did not acknowledge my reality. How could they? Their world makes sense to them. They are not psychologists. And most of the time, their God helped them find their lost keys.
This describes almost perfectly a situation in our family decades ago, and I was guilty of salting the wounds. I wish we could always know what we don’t know. Talk about regret.
Heber, I do think you are explaining some of it. But I still have a hard time with some people (leaders in specific) are sometimes so lacking in empathy. I get that being a bishop is insanely hard and most members don’t have enough empathy for the stresses of a bishop and his family. I would just assume that they have enough of the pure love of Christ. But I have known some good administrators that were what I would call “near heartless” be called to be a bishop. I know that my wife and I can’t even talk about my faith issues. I think part of her feels it is faithful to just ignore anything that does not fit your mental model. The other is that I would have to be honest and say she is more of “I don’t want any challenges even if I grow from them.”
Even though it has just been a few weeks on this forum (and I still have “record My Story” on my todo list), it is refreshing to have others that I feel some comrade.
LookingHard wrote:Heber, I do think you are explaining some of it. But I still have a hard time with some people (leaders in specific) are sometimes so lacking in empathy….
Even though it has just been a few weeks on this forum (and I still have “record My Story” on my todo list), it is refreshing to have others that I feel some comrade.
Ya…their lack of empathy is painful. Believe me, I’ve experienced that from well meaning bishops who told me some very non-empathetic things during my divorce and the trials I was carrying. It hurt. I just had to stop looking at priesthood leaders with expectations their keys gave them some experience with worldly things like mental illness, divorce, and heterodox thinking when they simply were never trained or experienced to understand where I was coming from to know how to respond. It would take weeks to explain to them where I started, what made my ideas change, and why I have come to my belief from a new angle…maybe longer than weeks because it took me a few years to work through my issues, trying to explain that to someone in a 30-60 minute interview is just not realistic.I will say I have had very loving leaders who up front recognize they haven’t experienced what I have so they can’t relate, but they love me and have faith things will work out. Those are the messages that help…not someone who things they can tell you what went wrong and why…but someone who just says no matter where you are now…there is a way forward.
I have found this board a great source of hope, and many that understand each other.
You seem to fit in just fine here…we understand each other, I think.
Heber13 wrote:I will say I have had very loving leaders who up front recognize they haven’t experienced what I have so they can’t relate, but they love me and have faith things will work out. Those are the messages that help…not someone who things they can tell you what went wrong and why…but someone who just says no matter where you are now…there is a way forward.
I probably would have distanced myself in some way from the church if it wasn’t for my last and current bishops. I knew them well before they were bishops and I think they already knew I where my heart was. I am very grateful for this. There are a few bishops that I have had that I could see a VERY different outcome. That is because I saw it in their own families. Most of this Bishop’s family left the church after being in it solid for a few generations.
RagDollSallyUT wrote:It is a shame that people who have suffered such injuries are further alienated by well meaning people trying to convince them to repent. I ponder these days how much choice we have in many “sins” we commit. There are many things I used to see as being choices that I am not longer convinced are choices at all. I reach out there with my findings with empathy and love to any in the same situation. Perhaps such complicated matters as psychological issues shouldn’t be over simplified.
The catalyst of my FC was the crumbling of my Assumptive World built upon the just world hypothesis. Essentially this states that good happens to good people and that good choices bring good consequences. I belive that this hypothesis is woven into the very fabric of our LDS culture/theology. When Joseph Fielding was saying the black people where less valiant in the pre-mortal realm – he was speculating based upon this premise. If someone is being punished – they must deserve it.
The just world hypothesis is common for people who have good stable childhoods and family experiences. Our life experiences (especially if lived inside a Mormon bubble) can shield us from how unfair life can be. We can then (erroniously) conclude that life is fair. Unfortunately this can leave us unprepared to deal with unfairness in our own lives. This can also hinder us from understanding the journey of individuals that have encountered gross unfairness in their life.
RDS, your journey is true. I know it has had deep valleys. I hope that it also has peaks and rays of sunshine to give you strength to move forward. I know that you are doing your best in walking your path. I believe in the God who weeps. He weeps with me because of His compassion and love for me and because things are not always fair. I do not look to Him to fix me, my situation, or the world. It is enough that He knows my heart.
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