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When you play sports, you wear appropriate sports equipment. I’ve always told my daughters to consider sex a sport .. And good lingerie is the appropriate equipment.
Moving on …
After 30 years of garment wearing .. I quit wearing them. It has been about 6 months now. I feel wonderful . There has been no guilt, no distress, no down side. I decided that my relationship with God had better be about more than my underwear. And if he was allowing babies to die painful agonizing deaths, allowing torture, and genocide — and that was considered acceptable and moral because He is God. Then He was God enough to deal with my underwear choice.
cwald wrote:Why is not wearing them “not an option?”
Yeah. This is a serious, serious problem within the Mormon church. I have an opinion but nobody cares what I think.
I care. In fact I put great value on what you have to say.
By the way God does not care what underwear you wear. They are an invention of men. Perhaps the best thing that could happen to the church is everyone stopped going to the temple. We may then have to look inward to find spirituality instead of relying on outward manifestations of our obedience.
Cadence wrote:cwald wrote:Why is not wearing them “not an option?”
Yeah. This is a serious, serious problem within the Mormon church. I have an opinion but nobody cares what I think.
I care. In fact I put great value on what you have to say.By the way God does not care what underwear you wear. They are an invention of men. Perhaps the best thing that could happen to the church is everyone stopped going to the temple. We may then have to look inward to find spirituality instead of relying on outward manifestations of our obedience.
Thank you.
I agree about the Temple. Things will not change until enough members stand up to the corporation. As long as most active members who share this concern continue to wear garments out of fear, shame and blind obedience just to pass a litmus test to get a temple recommend, i doubt much will change faster than a snail pace.
Obviously I’m no longer patient or content to wait for the church to catch up to the god’s standards.
[Admin Note]: This is a forum to discuss ways to stay LDS. It is a site to discuss issues and provide support to help people know they are not alone in seeing things differently than the orthodox norm. It is a site to discuss those issues, and it is a safe site to vent in an attempt to move toward and develop peace and personal faith in whatever form that takes. This is NOT a site to call for the elimination of the temple or the garment or any other aspect of Mormonism that is central and sacred to most members. It is not a site to position the LDS Church as being in opposition to God. Take that stuff to other sites. It is wholly inconsistent with our mission.
Old-Timer wrote:[Admin Note]: This is a forum to discuss ways to stay LDS. It is a site to discuss issues and provide support to help people know they are not alone in seeing things differently than the orthodox norm. It is a site to discuss those issues, and it is a safe site to vent in an attempt to move toward and develop peace and personal faith in whatever form that takes.
This is NOT a site to call for the elimination of the temple or the garment or any other aspect of Mormonism that is central and sacred to most members. It is not a site to position the LDS Church as being in opposition to God. Take that stuff to other sites. It is wholly inconsistent with our mission.
Your right Ray, I can not come here anymore. This site no longer gives me any support, I need to move on.
Thanks for the support Spock. Thank you, sincerely, for your contributions. Go now with God – or with whatever gives you meaning and peace. [Admin Note]: back to the post and a discussion of the garment cwald wrote:Why is not wearing them “not an option?”
Yeah. This is a serious, serious problem within the Mormon church…
cwald wrote:
As long as most active members who share this concern continue to wear garments out of fear, shame and blind obedience just to pass a litmus test to get a temple recommend, i doubt much will change faster than a snail pace.I would like the whole issue to go private. If garment wearing is really between the individual and the Lord, then let it be.
Let us be individuals. Wearing garments doesn’t bother my husband
at all. He doesn’t find them uncomfortable; they don’t mess with his masculinity. I’m different. I wish the church would let me be different, just like my husband does. My love and respect for him has only increased during these last couple of years. Garments are so woven into LDS lives and marriages. He could have made it hell for me, but he didn’t. I remember the David O. McKay biographer talked about the shift during his tenure from a thundering, “Let them obey!” to, “Let them
grow.” I’d like the church to trust us. Trust that we could still value the garment even if we didn’t wear it every minute of our lives. Ann.^^..yes but if they didn’t hold the ultimate control (temple recommends ie seeing your children married) how would the men of the church be able to control women’s bodies and modesty? Sorry but garments while suppose to be symbolic and a reminder of the potential beauty of the temple have become the most outward sign of a WOMAN’s personal righteousness in the eyes of church members. There wouldn’t be a need to have babies and children cover their shoulders and knees if it wasn’t such a HUGE marker of a “good and godly lds female”. Beyond that garments would be fine if as you said left to each of us to decide how to wear and respect them. It won’t ever happen though IMO simply because the emphasis has moved from the potential spiritual beauty they are suppose to represent to what / who they control now ie WOMEN and their bodies. Sad because they could be a beautiful if left to the individual to wear as they saw fit. Ann wrote:I would like the whole issue to go private. If garment wearing is really between the individual and the Lord, then let it be.
I look at garments sorta like wedding rings. I no longer wear my wedding ring. This does not mean anything bad as some people might suppose. I know that I am married. I know that I am covenanted to one woman. If it was important to her that I wear it as an outward marking then I would but she seems ok with it not being worn.
In addition, we have garments – that are sorta like giant wedding rings to remind us of our bond to each other.
I have taken to not wearing garment tops to work to help control a sweaty armpits problem. I am also changing my deoderant routine and the colors of dressshirts that I wear to help. I have explained my intentions to DW and she is ok with it.
I tried to institute garment free evenings every other night – just for the added intimacy. This did get some pushback. We still do the garment free evenings just not on a schedule.
I believe that Garments are hard because of the meaning that other people attach to them. I recommend a policy of “Don’t ask, Don’t tell!” with priesthood leaders and patient and loving explanation with spouses.
I don’t think most men realize just how effective garments are at killing any desire for intimacy for women. It’s nearly impossible to feel sexy in them (for women), and women need some ramp up time. hawkgrrrl wrote:I don’t think most men realize just how effective garments are at killing any desire for intimacy for women. It’s nearly impossible to feel sexy in them (for women), and women need some ramp up time.
Interesting. Is there anything we as members can do to remedy the problem of garment requirements?
cwald wrote:hawkgrrrl wrote:I don’t think most men realize just how effective garments are at killing any desire for intimacy for women. It’s nearly impossible to feel sexy in them (for women), and women need some ramp up time.
Interesting. Is there anything we as members can do to remedy the problem of garment requirements?
(hawkgrrrl – +1)
I’m starting in my own little family. I hope that my husband’s acceptance of me will percolate out. Maybe if someone in HPG goes on a tear about garments, he’ll feel forced by his conscience to say (all Uchtdorf), “Stop it.”
I initially felt somewhat sheepish around my older daughter, and she assured me with these exact words, “I don’t judge you.” Maybe I’ve created some breathing room in her thinking.
In theory, I would like my bishop to understand a person like me. I love him like a brother, but while the culture is so exacting on this issue, I can’t risk talking with him.
What people who have no use at all for garments could do to help: Tread lightly on the subject.
P.S. I look forward to the day your crazy alien avatar returns.
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