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In studying more from Elder Timothy Dyches talk in Conference titled “Wilt thou be made whole?”, I had some thoughts I wanted to share with my friends in this group. Quote:Do you remember when your faith and joy were full to the brim? Remember the moment you found your testimony or when God confirmed to you that you were His son or daughter and that He loved you very much—and you felt whole? If that time seems lost, it can be found again.
Here was my thought…after a crisis of faith, perhaps even after one so painful it is hard to go to church anymore, or believe church leaders, or even wonder if God is there…After such a shake up in perspective and belief…Can we be made whole again? Or are we forever broken?Quote:The Savior counsels us on how to be made whole—to be complete or become healed:
“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
“Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”(Matthew 11:28–30).
“Come, follow me” (Luke 18:22) invites us to leave behind the old life and worldly desires and become a new creature for whom “old things are passed away [and] all things are become new” (2 Corinthians 5:17), even with a new, faithful heart. And we are made whole again.
“Draw near unto me and I will draw near unto you; seek me diligently and ye shall find me; ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you” (D&C 88:63). As we draw near to Him, we realize that mortality is meant to be difficult and that “opposition in all things” (2 Nephi 2:11) is not a flaw in the plan of salvation. Opposition, rather, is the indispensable element of mortality and strengthens our will and refines our choices.
Is it possible our “old wordly life” included the way we lived the church life…we placed our understanding of God and His love and our worthiness on the things of this world, which inlcude fallible prophets, inspired but imperfect leaders, limited historical accounts, correlated lesson materials and worldly traditions of our fathers (even our LDS fathers)? We wanted approval of our ward brothers and sisters (and our literal family, parents, siblings), and doubting things or saying things that are unpopular or scary to others puts us in an uncomfortable place. But if we bury our feelings based on our experiences in life and what we learn (like the uncorrelated historical facts), because there is no safe place to express our doubts, then…we are not whole with our own spirit. There is conflict and fear and guilt and anomicity within us.Christ taught us to find the “way”, so that we can have peace, not as this world giveth, peace not of this world. Perhpas the GC talks are about how people should repent and become one with the body of Christ. That will work for many people to hear that message. But if you take Elder Dyches words, and many others’ at GC, and apply them to how you honestly feel…perhaps there is a way to apply these principles that help each of us become whole with our spirits and with the Lord. Christ’s gospel is about love, and knowing we are loved by God, just as we are, and that we can strive to be better, and strive to find peace in life.
From my perspective, perhaps I do not believe the church is literally what it claims to be. I see it as something different.
But I can still accept a calling as a scout leader and work to serve the families whose boys want some good wholesome activities and experiences with nature to grow and learn and find friends.
I can still teach a lesson on Sunday if in my heart my desire is to uplift and inspire others to choose goodness, and I can choose my words carefully to achieve that rather than create contention or fear.
I can attend church on Sunday to look for what I can learn, even if I reject and discard 80% of it before I leave the church building that Sunday.
Well, why would I even keep going or trying? I don’t know…sometimes I feel drawn to it, and i don’t know why. But to be whole, I want to accept my inner feelings and beliefs with the outer culture and social setting.
These may not be easy things to do, but I may be able to do them if I focus on what I think Christ really teaches:
– Love others
– Serve others
– Forgive others
– Constantly strive to look inward at changing myself to be better
– Find peace and meaning in life
– Be happy and cheerful
If I focus on the gospel of Christ, the church can be put in perspective for what I see it is. Christ spent his ministry teaching gospel principles. Yes…he setup His church before leaving to carryon the work…but it was not the work of establishing churches, it was the work of teaching us how to find truth so our souls can be made free from the problems of this world, and church is a vehicle to try to do that. No one in church will tell me they disagree with me that I should focus on Christ as my Savior, or the foundation of my beliefs.
I can seek to be whole by being honest with my inner feelings…and re-engaging with others to show I can love and tolerate others, without having to change who I am or try to pretend I believe something that I don’t believe.
I am studying to find out if there is a way for me forward when I focus on the Savior, and what his teachings really mean to me in my life, not the church and what happens Sunday to Sunday as other mortals are working out things around me.
To be “whole again”, perhaps my spirit inside me with all the turmoil and questions and anger, needs to come to peace with my life and my surroundings. And perhaps that takes patience, because the Dark Night of the Soul is way longer than a single night. But I do not wait for the church to change or others to change to tell me I’m OK, I seek what I need to do in order to endure in faith that one day the Lord can make me whole with my inner feelings and with the church and with others who are there. That can come by focusing on the Lord, not on the church.
Is it realistic? Can it be done? Or are there some things too earth-shaking to try to go back to church and make that work?
What do you all think?
Quote:Can we be made whole again? Or are we forever broken?
No, we can’t be made whole “again”, since we weren’t “whole” (complete, fully developed) in the first place – but we can understand better the process of becoming truly whole. We can, however, be healed.
The opposite of being broken is being rejoined (or healed) – and that absolutely can be done. It just requires differing treatments for different ailments and, sometimes, reconstructive surgery is required. Most people never need the more radical procedures (like reconstructive surgery), but some people can’t be healed just by medication and/or cosmetic surgery. Remember, the whole need not a physician – which implies the broken do. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but not all have been broken in a way that requires surgery. However, it is interesting to read that a broken heart is required to know God fully – so, in a sense, only the truly brokenhearted can walk the path toward full healing and true wholeness.
Can we be restored to the level of belief and relative peace we felt as TBM’s? SilentDawning wrote:Can we be restored to the level of belief and relative peace we felt as TBM’s?
I think so. I doubt I can ever see things the same way, but I can build the same level of belief and peace I once had with my current self. At least, that is what I hope for…still working on it.“Level” of belief in some things, yes; in other things, no. My belief in some important things is stronger than ever.
Heber13 wrote:Is it possible our “old wordly life” included the way we lived the church life…we placed our understanding of God and His love and our worthiness on the things of this world, which inlcude fallible prophets, inspired but imperfect leaders, limited historical accounts, correlated lesson materials and worldly traditions of our fathers (even our LDS fathers)? We wanted approval of our ward brothers and sisters (and our literal family, parents, siblings), and doubting things or saying things that are unpopular or scary to others puts us in an uncomfortable place. But if we bury our feelings based on our experiences in life and what we learn (like the uncorrelated historical facts), because there is no safe place to express our doubts, then…we are not whole with our own spirit. There is conflict and fear and guilt and anomicity within us.
Something about this reminds me of an interview I heard with Emma Lou Thayne. She talked about not having much to do with the “downtown church” anymore. (I can’t remember what exactly she meant by that, but I’m beginning to understand what I mean by it.) I initially thought, Easy for you, Emma Lou. You have deep Mormon roots, a very stable geographic center to your life, ward members you’ve known and loved for years, a cabin to retreat to, a writing career, and so on. But I was still inspired by her telling of it all to make my life less conflicted, like you say above, and more whole.
Heber13 wrote:SilentDawning wrote:Can we be restored to the level of belief and relative peace we felt as TBM’s?
I think so. I doubt I can ever see things the same way, but I can build the same level of belief and peace I once had with my current self. At least, that is what I hope for…still working on it.Likewise, it is what I hope for but I am still doubtful it can actually happen. As I have gone about rebuilding my faith I see areas where I cannot believe as I once did. That may not be bad, I suppose, because what I once believed may not have been true and/or correct. My own perception is that I will not in this life have the level of faith I once had – but I am open to the idea that my new faith may in some ways be better or stronger than my old faith.
SilentDawning wrote:Can we be restored to the level of belief and relative peace we felt as TBM’s?
For me, I could find that sense of certainty again in evangelical Christianity. I am drawn to the approach and the people. Unfortunately for any one position to be absolutely right all other positions must be wrong in the degree that they differ from the right position. Ironically, in my effort to keep open the possibility that there are important truths in Mormonism, I am also forced to see value in a multitude of perspectives. I see value in many perspectives but certainty in none. I feel like I am in a good place with relative peace, but no single perspective is my “whole” world. I also feel that there is yet room for me to consider still more perspectives – so I’m not sure that am “whole”/fully developed even with the sum of all the perspectives I’ve so far encountered.
Old-Timer wrote:No, we can’t be made whole “again”, since we weren’t “whole” (complete, fully developed) in the first place
Roy wrote:so I’m not sure that am “whole”/fully developed even with the sum of all the perspectives I’ve so far encountered.
I think when I look at the message from the conference talk that prompted my thinking, I don’t see anywhere that defines “whole” as completely done, or perfect, or fully developed. That could be one definition of whole, but I don’t sense that was what was being taught.Quote:The Savior counsels us on how to be made whole—to be complete
or become healed: “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
“Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”(Matthew 11:28–30).
“Come, follow me” (Luke 18:22) invites us to leave behind the old life and worldly desires and become a new creature for whom “old things are passed away [and] all things are become new” (2 Corinthians 5:17), even with a new, faithful heart. And we are made whole again.
It sounds to me more like Christ taught of being healed…
Old-Timer wrote:we can understand better the process of becoming truly whole. We can, however, be healed.
More along these lines of what Ray said, in that “whole” is at peace with ourselves and our faith.
And when we frame the meaning in those terms…I may never have the “same” faith I had before, but I can come to be at peace with my “new” faith I continue build, according to my conscience of what I can and cannot believe…and still find rest to my soul and be at peace with God looking upon my heart. Even to the point I return to church with a testimony so different from what I hear others repeating at church, but still be in their midst, and be happy to be there. Or even take a break, not go if I don’t fine it worthwhile, and be OK telling friends and family I’m fine without it. In other words…be at peace.
DarkJedi wrote:I am open to the idea that my new faith may in some ways be better or stronger than my old faith.
:thumbup: I’ve had similar thoughts…when I reflect on my “life” as a TBM, things were a bit easier, and I was “happy”…at least I think I was. I was going through the motions and not understanding many of them. I was very much worried about how others saw me, how I presented myself, how I saw others. I was so focused on the letter of the law, that I lost the spirit of the law. Now that I have taken a step out, I have tried to put myself back into the emotional place of a TBM. I COULD go back and put blinders on and just forget that I ever had questions…but I feel like I would be shortchanging myself.
If we were to focus on what Christ taught, we would almost not need organized religion at all. If our sole job here is to love others, we can do that without buildings and structure of Sunday programs.
However, like so many others, I still feel the need and draw to go to church on Sundays.
Strangely, since I’ve taken a step back, I’ve felt less happy than before.
I’ve wondered, is that the Spirit helping me see that a TBM is the way to go?
Am I feeling despondent b/c I don’t have it all figured out yet and I don’t know where to find the answers? Which then reminds me of the scripture that says that people will wander to and fro looking for the truth because they know not where to find it.
It’s mental gymnastics, I know.
But to answer the OP…perhaps the hardest part of “healing” and rebuilding our faith is that it’s painful. It’s hard work. It takes effort to cleanse our inner vessel and to change our hearts. It’s easy to follow the flock of the TMB’s…the thinking has already been done for us once we are in the group, right? It’s downright hard to come to terms with things we do not know.
Anyway…good post. I hope we ALL can find the peace we are so desperately seeking.
We obviously feel something that makes us stay or we wouldn’t be here.
In the end, when the Savior comes again (and I believe that He will) and He sets things aright, will we feel vindicated or sheepish?
:think: I know I don’t want to be wrong when that time comes…
QuestionAbound wrote:In the end, when the Savior comes again (and I believe that He will) and He sets things aright, will we feel vindicated or sheepish?
I know I don’t want to be wrong when that time comes…
I’m sure you meant this somewhat tongue in cheek (thus the emoticons) but I reason that we will all be wrong to such a degree that none will feel particularly vindicated. I believe/hope that we will all be too overwhelmed with gratitude for the liberal covering of the atonement on behalf of our own weakness/ignorance/stupidity to want to point the finger at anyone else.
In a slightly different vein – IF:
1) There are things yet to be revealed
2) There are elements of the church that are cultural and not eternal
3) We as individuals and as a community might actually be wrong about some of our assumptions (like various groups of saints now appear to have been given our additional “light and knowledge”)
THEN we Mormons might have just as much of an adjustment in the afterlife as anyone else.
One of the main reasons the Jews didn’t recognize Jesus as the Messiah was that he didn’t come in the way they expected him to. I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened again. Roy…good point. I still sometimes fear that Day…afraid I’ll be turned to ashes or something. 
Dark…interesting thought! I guess David Koresh just wasn’t it, then?
DarkJedi wrote:One of the main reasons the Jews didn’t recognize Jesus as the Messiah was that he didn’t come in the way they expected him to. I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened again.
Are you suggesting it might not be in Missouri??
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