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Do you believe that living righteously has any effect at all on gods blessings or lack thereof towards you? If you pay tithing do you believe you will be financially rewarded? If you refrain from immoral thoughts completely will God be more likely to answer your prayers? Are Gods blessings dependent on your behavior? Do you earn what you get from God?Cadence wrote:Do you believe that living righteously has any effect at all on gods blessings or lack thereof towards you? If you pay tithing do you believe you will be financially rewarded? If you refrain from immoral thoughts completely will God be more likely to answer your prayers?
In my personal journey I have to say no.
I was all for earning blessings when it left me in the driver’s seat calling down the blessings of heaven upon my household. But the idea that maybe I could have preserved my daughter’s life if only I had been more righteous was the dark side of this equation. Of course, when you really start looking at it, there are many that seem very righteous and have extraordinarily difficult lives. I finally concluded that there was no definite correlation between righteousness and divine blessings. (there are still correlations between abstaining from drugs and not having a drug addiction problem later on or saving money and having a financial reserve later on. It could be argued that there are blessings/positive natural consequences to both tithing and schooling your thoughts – but for the sake of your question I am defining “blessings” to be things that would
notbe considered to flow naturally from one’s actions and are therefore miraculous divine interventions. The other difficulty is if you refer to the blessings that are to come in the afterlife – again for the sake of your post I am limiting myself to blessings that would be received in this life) To me all of this is based on the traditional view of God as a king or liege lord. You kneel to beg his attention and show your obeisance, you pledge to serve and obey, you make promises, you ask others to intercede for you (in the case of orthodox and catholics, praying for saints to take up your case with God), and you hope his mood is generous, forgiving and benevolent. The twist in the LDS church is the “law irrevocably decreed…”. You want a blessing you keep a commandment. You want more you do more. I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard someone say they were doing something to “get blessings”. The only problem from my observation and experience over the years is that it doesn’t work that way. You don’t get what you pay for even if you had a clue what it was you were supposed to do besides everything. To me it’s more random than a craps game. So how do blessings come? Beats the hell out of me. The D&C says that blessings are predicated on obedience. So, yes. Also, covenants are riddled with ‘if you do this you get that” thinking. Does it happen in real life? Only according to God’s mysterious rules that defy any human-comprehensible algorithm.
Of course, one can always rely on “the blessings are in the next life” argument, which I find a bit hard to swallow sometimes — it’s like a sneaky way of getting you to do things now without giving up anything. Priesthood leaders use it all the time.
I guess all those kids starving in Africa just haven’t kept enough of God’s commandments, then, right? Brown wrote:I guess all those kids starving in Africa just haven’t kept enough of God’s commandments, then, right?
Good point.
I do not believe one can earn God’s blessings or favor. He is, after all, no respecter of person. I hate hearing people say things like “I’m doing such and such a thing to get a blessing” or “I did such and such a thing and got such and such a blessing.” Doesn’t boasting in your “good works” the very thing that causes all of our righteousness to become as filthy rags (menstrual cloth) to the Lord? No. I really wanted this to be true. I depended on it deeply for some of the most important decisions in my life, ones that had lasting impact on the rest of how my life on this earth would play out. I have fully partaken the sacrament of defeat though, the bread of failure and the bitter wine of disappointment. Now to be clear … I
ama happy person. I consider myself to be happy and one who enjoys life. But no. I have not found that the gods out there seem to reward or punish me with any pattern of consistency worth using as a guide to “blessings,” fame and fortune 🙂 I have come to the conclusion that being a good person is its own reward. I find it satisfying and rewarding. It makes me happy. It makes me feel like my life is valuable, and I feel a connection to making the world a better place, and in some very small way perhaps this is a form of immortality.
So have I just described a perfect paradox? I don’t believe I am blessed by God for being good, but I find myself feeling rewarded and valuable when I do good, while still believing in the existence of some type of God.
When I attach my desire to a reward and depend on that happening, I fall flat on my face usually. When I let go and promote the general good, not expecting any particular result, I feel blessed and and happy. When I put compassion into the world, I seem to receive compassion. When I put anger in the world, I tend to receive disharmony, hurt and chaos.
Lowell Bennion liked to quote a hindu proverb that said, “to action only hast though a right but not to the results thereof”. In other words, what Brian said.
Yes and no. I believe in “Saved in spite of all we can do.” Our efforts are miniscule… BUT…
I also think we do need to put some effort in. If we live really horribly, and expect blessings, we’re not going to get them. Living horribly includes being a church member, but a Pharisee along with it.
I feel fasting and scripture reading both require a fair bit of effort, but I have been rewarded in some ways.
Cadence wrote:Do you believe that living righteously has any effect at all on gods blessings or lack thereof towards you?If you pay tithing do you believe you will be financially rewarded? If you refrain from immoral thoughts completely will God be more likely to answer your prayers? Are Gods blessings dependent on your behavior? Do you earn what you get from God?Yes and No. I definitely believe some events are mostly random and could have easily happened differently than they did to the point that they are very difficult or impossible to predict or control sometimes. Because of this, some people will inevitably suffer from unfortunate events they didn’t necessarily deserve in any way. On the other hand, I think any real “sins” are basically unwise decisions that typically have their own natural consequences whether guilt, displeasing others and/or losing their trust, wasted time or money, health problems, etc.
Even if you can get away with some bad decisions without always experiencing direct negative consequences, the longer you push your luck the more likely it is that too many bad decisions will end up costing you over the long run. That’s why it wouldn’t surprise me if there is some correlation between the determination to exercise some discipline and common sense and increased prosperity compared to people that don’t even try or have a harder time with this but it doesn’t necessarily mean there is anything magical about it if some people are more adept at using good judgment and staying out of trouble than others. Focusing on the expected consequences is also one reason I don’t believe that not paying tithing is really any kind of legitimate sin by itself because I actually like the overall results I see from this course of action and I am confident that I will never regret it.
Brian Johnston wrote:No. I really wanted this to be true. I depended on it deeply for some of the most important decisions in my life, ones that had lasting impact on the rest of how my life on this earth would play out. I have fully partaken the sacrament of defeat though, the bread of failure and the bitter wine of disappointment.
I have been there. I have experienced the pain of when your faith fails you and things turn out poorly. It really makes me discount performance or faith based blessings. If god does intervene it is for some agenda he has that I can not fathom.
SamBee wrote:If we live really horribly, and expect blessings, we’re not going to get them. Living horribly includes being a church member, but a Pharisee along with it.
I have a dissenting opinion here. I’m pretty sure that the Pharisees did have blessings, counted them often, and probably felt that they were signs from God that they were favored above others.
My MIL is judgmental, gossipy, and unforgiving. She has been told by several of her adult children that they do not want to hear negative comments about the other siblings’ marriages. She tends to think that certain GC talks are directed towards other people but never to herself. (I of course am not an objective observer, as a SIL – I have been the object of some of these behaviors so you may want to factor that into my description.) I have come to realize that she will never change. She is so sure that the course she is on is the right one and she will not be dissuaded. (I once tried for several hours to get her to concede the
possibilitythat she could be wrong about another SIL’s motivations– but to no avail.) Anyway – if she were to be an example of a modern Pharisee, I would say that she sees blessings everywhere and feels justified in them.
P.S. I have also come to realize that my MIL does love her children and grandchildren and shows them in her own way. It seems that life is smoother after acknowledging her displays of love, showing gratitude for them, and not wishing (as much) that she would show love in ways that would be more helpful.
Brian wrote:I have come to the conclusion that being a good person is its own reward. I find it satisfying and rewarding. It makes me happy. It makes me feel like my life is valuable, and I feel a connection to making the world a better place, and in some very small way perhaps this is a form of immortality.
So have I just described a perfect paradox? I don’t believe I am blessed by God for being good, but I find myself feeling rewarded and valuable when I do good, while still believing in the existence of some type of God.
aren’t you saying, in essence that you are being blessed, therefore, you are earning those blessings?
I see it as you do, Brian. I still think good begets good, wrong begets wrong. The laws of the universe reward us, like driving on the right side of the road has it’s reward for me and others.
I just don’t think the blessings I was thinking of when I was trying to be obedient are the blessings I was getting (protection, greater spiritual access to guidance, more celestial currency, etc). I have detached myself from such expectations. I don’t think God is watching, paying some of our actions and withholding payment for other actions.
But I have come back around to still believing it is worthwhile and good for me to do, which in essence, is saying I can’t earn those blessings without doing something to get it.
Some blessings ARE earned though, as we obey natural laws. Even the tyrants of history were blessed for their hard work, for a time. You are blessed when you look after your body through exercise and good eating habits and rest. So, you CAN earn blessings, but I find this is most evident only when you are earning them through application of natural laws that are well understood. It’s when blessings come and there is no real cause for it — it just seems random. Then people attribute causes.
I notice that TBM’s ascribe all good things that happen to them as coming from God. When something bad happens to someone else, it’s life raining on both the wicked and the righteous. When a Church leader makes a decision and it works out, it’s evidence they are inspired. When they do something wrong, then it’s a result of human weakness and is no reflection on the Church or the inspiration of callings, or God.
Double standards everywhere to protect the person’s mind from the anxiety that comes from challenged beliefs.
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