CES LETTER

[Anonymous]

dingobex wrote:

I feel awful for the stupidity of my decision, the hurt i have caused others and genuine fear for what heavenly father might do.

Just a thought regarding God. In Christianity, we can often think of God as our biggest critic. We are told to ‘fear’ God. But I don’t think that is in harmony with the basics of the Gospel as taught by the Apostles (of old) or by JS. In Mormonism, in particular, God created all this FOR US. Even though he as enough to retire, he isn’t sitting by the pool drinking non-alcoholic margaritas, but instead, is working for your personal advancement to immortality and eternal life.

And as for the Church, I think it would be very helpful for you to remember that the Church is not in charge of your spirituality, you are. The Church is an imperfect vehicle. I don’t mean that flippantly. I find that I can find peace, spirituality, communion with the divine all within the framework of the Church even though I personally believe much much differently than the average member of the Church… by a long ways. But to a significant degree, that works for me because I seek spirituality on my own and leverage the opportunities provided within the Church as an aid, not as the pursuit itself. You need to be very careful not to see yourself as a pawn in someone else’s game of chess. Seeking out what YOU believe is the first step.

[Anonymous]

@ dingobex

There is no way that I can accept that the “one and only true religion” of Jesus Christ has a lot to do with or being that your salvation is based upon the Masonic rituals of the Mormon church temple ceremony. I feel pretty confident is saying: “Impossible.”

What ever spiritual experience you think you had in the temple has nothing whatsoever to do with “the one and only true church/religion” of God Almighty and the living Christ, if in fact there is a “God Almighty” and “living Christ”.

[Anonymous]

Morzen,

I am not a moderator on this site, but one thing that is so good about this site is that it is accepting of others and their views. While I think your first statement is acceptable where you frame it as how you see things, to me your second paragraph seems to be stepping into the territory of invalidating someone else’s perception.

My $0.02

[Anonymous]

LookingHard wrote:

Morzen,

I am not a moderator on this site, but one thing that is so good about this site is that it is accepting of others and their views. While I think your first statement is acceptable where you frame it as how you see things, to me your second paragraph seems to be stepping into the territory of invalidating someone else’s perception.

My $0.02

I am a moderator here and agree with LH. Please be more careful and caring in the future.

[Anonymous]

@ LookingHard and @DarkJedi

I would like to respond to this for my own ‘education’ (for the lack of a better term, perhaps).

If all four of us were casually sitting around a table and dingobex recounted what he wrote here and I respond to him with the very same words, I fail to understand how that would be taken as offensive. I’m sure he would defend his stance in some way to which I may, or may not keep the ball in the air, but to be sure no one is going to be ‘oh so’ offended, but rather understanding and accepting of the fact that we just have differing opinions about a subject that has certainly generated a lot of controversy and suspicion about it’s validity. Hence, on this forum there is nothing ad hominem in what I said; there wasn’t any denigrating name calling; there was just a calmly ‘spoken’ opinion that I shared (or ‘volunteered’). If the roles were reversed I would have even gladly welcomed my comment as something to consider, and perhaps respond to.

Would it have been okay if I had prefaced my comment with, “IMHO and not wanting to be disrespectful with regard to your spiritual experiences, there is no way that I can…. IMHO, what ever spiritual experience you think you had…”?

I understand and agree there has to be ’rules’ as to how people are to behave on a forum such as this one, but IMHO this beyond the limits of required censorship and political correctness. Are we really so thin-skinned and delicate in that we can’t stand a little heat of disagreement, or differing opinions? Dingbex shared something publicly AND anonymously, which to me invites comment and feedback. If this was so sacred to him then he shouldn’t have shared it in a public forum where most obviously there are going to be people who don’t agree with him (although hopefully, in a reasonably, non-abrasive manner–like I think I did).

Hey, this is just my opinion on the matter, but this your forum and you set the rules, although I don’t understand your limits about those rules.

[Anonymous]

LookingHard wrote:

to me your second paragraph seems to be stepping into the territory of invalidating someone else’s perception.

I agree.

I have had a spiritual experience that was very powerful for me. Not everyone may agree with it but I know that I felt it and nobody can take that away from me.

Dingobex tells us about a spiritual experience that she had. I am not comfortable with the implications of such an experience because it contradicts my assumptions about who God is and how He operates with his children. I acknowledge that there are recorded examples of God seeming to act in a punitive way in scripture and church history. I assume that those instances where recorded by individuals that imagined a much more harsh God that the God that I imagine but these accounts are still there in black and white.

I am careful to express my perspective to Dingobex. I believe that her interpretation of her spiritual experience is one that might minimize her sense of self worth. If she were interested – I would love to explore alternative interpretations that I believe she might find more positive and uplifting. It was, however, her spiritual experience. It does not belong to me and I cannot dictate anything. She does not seem to be a danger to herself or others that might warrant a more aggressive approach. She has the right to craft her own spiritual narrative in her own way. It is perfectly fine for Dingobex and I to disagree – however, I must always honor her spiritual journey as valid.

@Morzen

There is somewhat of an art in crafting statements that honor another person’s differences. It is not enough just to add an “IMHO” before everything one might type.

Morzen wrote:

not wanting to be disrespectful with regard to your spiritual experiences, there is no way that I can

I know a young boy with special needs that says, “I don’t mean to be rude but” and then invariably says something rude. We tolerate it because he is 12 and has autism but I hope that grown adults having respectful discussions can do better than that.

Morzen wrote:

what ever spiritual experience you think you had…”?

This phrasing would be particularly offensive. As I stated above, I did have a spiritual experience in the depths of my faith crisis and assumptive world collapse. Perhaps it was imaginary or a psychological response to extreme stress but it was real to me. For someone to completely discount and devalue my personal spiritual experience like that, I would find it thoughtless and unnecessarily hurtful.

I hope that you find my explanation helpful to consider how the way in which things are said (or written) can impact how they might likely be received.

[Anonymous]

1 – I mentioned it was not a “disallowed” comment, but it was moving toward the general line drawn for this forum.

2 – When I read (or hear) your last statement, it seems to say, “you are wrong and there is no way it could be that way.”

But then again, I have been told I am a bit “over there” on the empathy scale.

[Anonymous]

[Admin Note]: It’s been said enough to be clear. Let’s be careful not to pile on and do the same in reverse.

Morzen, I hope you understand and aren’t offended by the responses. Please stick around and learn with us. Heaven knows I have written things that needed to be addressed.

/back to the original topic

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Admin Note]: It’s been said enough to be clear. Let’s be careful not to pile on and do the same in reverse.

LOL! Yeah, I hear ya. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. It’s starting to get pretty warm in here–quite a bit more so than my own cooler, past comments, me thinks.

Onward and upward to better things.

Peace.

– Morzen

This just popped up in my email. Talk about synchronicity!

https://hbr.org/2016/05/7-things-to-say-when-a-conversation-turns-negative?” class=”bbcode_url”>https://hbr.org/2016/05/7-things-to-say-when-a-conversation-turns-negative?

[Anonymous]

Let me apologize if I have stepped over any lines – with the site or with you Morzen. I do want you to be here an contribute. Like you mentioned, if we were talking face to face we might have no issue with body language and voice inflections (or we could be punching each other already 😆 )

Have a great weekend.

[Anonymous]

@ LookingHard

No harm, no foul.

Peace.

m

[Anonymous]

Morzen- I was about to use that very phrase but it didn’t quite apply. [emoji3]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Anonymous]

Morzen wrote:

@ dingobex

There is no way that I can accept that the “one and only true religion” of Jesus Christ has a lot to do with or being that your salvation is based upon the Masonic rituals of the Mormon church temple ceremony. I feel pretty confident is saying: “Impossible.”

What ever spiritual experience you think you had in the temple has nothing whatsoever to do with “the one and only true church/religion” of God Almighty and the living Christ, if in fact there is a “God Almighty” and “living Christ”.

But what about the fact freemasonry started in solomons temple? At least that’s what I was told.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[Anonymous]

Morzen wrote:

@ LookingHard and @DarkJedi

I would like to respond to this for my own ‘education’ (for the lack of a better term, perhaps).

If all four of us were casually sitting around a table and dingobex recounted what he wrote here and I respond to him with the very same words, I fail to understand how that would be taken as offensive. I’m sure he would defend his stance in some way to which I may, or may not keep the ball in the air, but to be sure no one is going to be ‘oh so’ offended, but rather understanding and accepting of the fact that we just have differing opinions about a subject that has certainly generated a lot of controversy and suspicion about it’s validity. Hence, on this forum there is nothing ad hominem in what I said; there wasn’t any denigrating name calling; there was just a calmly ‘spoken’ opinion that I shared (or ‘volunteered’). If the roles were reversed I would have even gladly welcomed my comment as something to consider, and perhaps respond to.

Would it have been okay if I had prefaced my comment with, “IMHO and not wanting to be disrespectful with regard to your spiritual experiences, there is no way that I can…. IMHO, what ever spiritual experience you think you had…”?

I understand and agree there has to be ’rules’ as to how people are to behave on a forum such as this one, but IMHO this beyond the limits of required censorship and political correctness. Are we really so thin-skinned and delicate in that we can’t stand a little heat of disagreement, or differing opinions? Dingbex shared something publicly AND anonymously, which to me invites comment and feedback. If this was so sacred to him then he shouldn’t have shared it in a public forum where most obviously there are going to be people who don’t agree with him (although hopefully, in a reasonably, non-abrasive manner–like I think I did).

Hey, this is just my opinion on the matter, but this your forum and you set the rules, although I don’t understand your limits about those rules.

Im a woman and no i wasn’t offended

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[Anonymous]

dingobex wrote:

But what about the fact freemasonry started in solomons temple? At least that’s what I was told.

I’d place the origins of freemasonry in the camp of myth and legend more that fact. I think many scholars believe freemasonry originated in the middle ages, where the legend of Solomon’s Temple was more of an allegory (that some take literally – sound familiar ).

[Author]

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