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I gave lesson 9+10 this Sunday and it went fine. I mainly focused on science and religion not being two different sides but that we on both sides of the spectrum sometimes have to adjust our assumptions (taking the scriptures too literally, and not get hung up on science only). We discussed how worldly knowledge can actually lead to more faith and that we can gain testimonies/enlightenment from lots of other things than the scriptures. I mentioned studying psychology and how it made a very positive difference in my life. I generally find it really hard to teach by the manual only, using the Joseph fielding smith manual. He comes across like a hard liner and I really just pick the parts I like and teach those and then use my own stuff instead…. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bear wrote:I gave lesson 9+10 this Sunday and it went fine. I mainly focused on science and religion not being two different sides but that we on both sides of the spectrum sometimes have to adjust our assumptions (taking the scriptures too literally, and not get hung up on science only). We discussed how worldly knowledge can actually lead to more faith and that we can gain testimonies/enlightenment from lots of other things than the scriptures. I mentioned studying psychology and how it made a very positive difference in my life. I generally find it really hard to teach by the manual only, using the Joseph fielding smith manual. He comes across like a hard liner and I really just pick the parts I like and teach those and then use my own stuff instead….
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Generally yes, the very extreme example of walking to a meeting broke his leg on the way and continued walking at age 89. More then a few doctors raised there hands and wouldn’t advise it as a elderly man generally it can lead to death.
Was happy to have that kind of voluntary input before someone saw it as an example of how to be or others should be.
This relates to that as the doctors did jested not tempting faith to overcome such an extreme situation that could put what science knows of a person (especially elderly) in peril of more injury or death.
As it started to go that way as a good example of how to be, I’m happy a few qualified people spoke up in their respective science field applicable to the situation.
For the crux of the question is, what is the purpose of a lesson in church? My answer to this is that it’s probably for the edification of the group. To feel the spirit, to be reminded of the basics of the gospel which we have all likely forgotten during the week.
So the question would be, what kind of discussion serves the group? Probably the correlation lesson pretty much as written, with emphasis also on whatever the four standard works say on the points discussed.
Not everyone is at the same education level. Not everyone thrives diving into things from a scholarly discussion. That not what “charges everyone’s battery.” Maybe, though, there is a young dad who is feeling overwhelmed with job and kids and just needs to have his spiritual battery charged by being edified by the Spirit.
I know I’m probably setting the bar pretty low, as far as advanced academic discussion. But I don’t know if that’s the reason we have lesson in church, as much as I might hope that were the way it was.
I like this:
Old-Timer wrote:Don’t go into a lesson like this looking to argue or educate or prove anyone wrong.
It is a positive topic as worded, so don’t go into it with a negative orientation. Go in with a list of scriptural verses and statements from apostles, read and discuss one at a time, and the time will disappear. Personally, I would love it if the next year’s priesthood manual was titled “Epistemology and the Gospel” with discussion led by a real professor of philosophy. But it’s probably not going to happen and it’s probably not what a lot of people need.
I want to add a little more to what I just said. Personally, I think the reason we read scriptures, listen to General Conference, and have lessons in church is to create an occasion that serves as a catalyst to connect us with the Spirit. A catalyst is something that brings two substances together that would otherwise not react very easily.
The Spirit is what teaches, when it comes to spiritual knowledge. Some prophet or GA once said that when you feel the Spirit you will learn something every time.
When I’m listening to a lesson, I get energized by the discussion of ideas, because I’m an ideas person. That’s the side of me that loves academic knowledge.
But even more valuable are the times when I’m pondering what’s being said, and the Spirit tells me something I need to know in my life. In the life of my spirit, not necessarily the life of my mind. So, “Dude, it’s really time to forgive your brother for that thing.” Or, “Wow, I never realized how important genealogy was. I need to get into that more.” Or, “Wow, the gospel really is true.”
I wish I could teach this lesson and am looking forward to participating in it. I recently taught a gospel principles lesson on the creation. I turned it into a lesson on “Religion vs Science or Religion with Science?”
http://manyotherhands.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/a-thoughtful-gospel-principles-chapter_9.html The quotes thread is worth reading, though it’s not thematic.
I’ve collated all of them into themes on another blog.
These could be useful (some overlap due to multiple tags):
“More to discover”
http://ldsthoughtfulquotes.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/more%20to%20discover “Independent thinking”
http://ldsthoughtfulquotes.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/independent%20thinking “Science”
http://ldsthoughtfulquotes.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/science “Study”
http://ldsthoughtfulquotes.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/study Today’s lesson went Great! Thank you all for your suggestions.
I shared some of the quotes posted here and also the story of Galileo from wiki. I cut out from the lesson manual all the parts that talked about learning truth threw the Holy Ghost. I couldn’t teach that part with a clear conscience, knowing what I know and with my life experiences. It left about half the lesson to read.
I then let the people in the class share what they wanted. One person said, “not all that is in the scriptures is correct.” I asked him to elaborate on his point and he did. He said that some people take things to literally and the scriptures can be read on multiple levels. Another person then chimed in. “Who here even thinks Noah got two of every animal on the arc?” No one raised their hand. One person said we need to approach learning with a spirit of humility. We talked about all the wonderful places we can turn to, to learn truth. It was agreed that true science and true religion should not contradict. Some one mentioned the Muslim prophet Mohamed and the truth he shared. It sounded like an article from Dialog.
What I liked most was that people where thinking with their minds. I think it was liberating for some. There was about 15 people in the class and just about every one had something to contribute. Half the people in the class came up to me afterward and said it was a great lesson. It was a very faith promoting experience for me. It gave me hope that this is the right place for me. Every one seemed to come to a consensus rather than me the teacher or the lesson manual telling every one what to believe.
Thank you again every one.
How did your lesson go on Sunday?
Our lesson went pretty well today. A friend of mine who is a convert taught it, and being a member of the church has made a huge healing difference in her life, so I vowed to myself not to rock any boats on her behalf. We did get a bit mired in the quote about God’s truth trumping everything, religions, science, politics. There were definitely quite a few “Well, we know blah, blah, blah comments” when it got to that point I popped my hand in the air and talked about the D&C scripture about learning by books, study, etc. I then elaborated and explained that Joseph really lived by that. The first temple in Kirtland was a study hall, nothing like our temples today, Joseph studied Hebrew, brought in doctors, etc. for learning. Later Brother Brigham sent women off to learn medicine and more. It went over well. The highlight of the day though came when a women mentioned her friend who had a very strong testimony but has now left the church. How shocked this sister was about her friend. As the sister got to the part of how her friend was reading stuff, I wanted to raise my hand, but then like lightening a calm, loving, warmth ran over me. I just listened to her and actually heard my soul say, “It’s okay. I love you. Who knows where your road will take you. Maybe someday you will understand your friend.” It was complete peace yet overpowering. I sat through the rest of the lesson with that heart pounding, pulsating feeling you get after you’ve had a spiritual or overpowering experience. I am still stunned by it. To quote Ben Hur, “The sword was taken from my heart.”
That’s awesome. I really wish I could have been there. As it was, I was stuck home with a cold. I’m really happy that your lesson went well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ours included a member of the Bishopric mentioning watching a geology documentary with his son that talked about the long history of the world, as well as a comment from a member of the Stake Presidency who said the best quote in lots of cases is, “We don’t know right now.” He also mentioned majoring in Biology at BYU and how evolution is taught openly and as a requirement there. It was a good lesson.
We’re a week behind and had the “Witnesses” lesson. I was worried about that one, but quite pleased when the teacher touched only briefly on the witnesses and then said that for the last 25-30 minutes we would share favourite passages from the Book of Mormon. It went fairly well.
We’ll have this lesson next week – I’ll let you know.
I only wish I could say that our lesson went as well as yours, kinglamoni and mom3. The instructor this time around is an institute teacher and read a letter a young man at BYU had written informing his leaders, family, and friends of his resigning from the church. He mentioned the number of young people leaving the church (he’s got to know about this issue since he is CES) and asked for comments on how we could help them so leaving wouldn’t happen. I mentioned that what I have noticed was that the people who seem to have the most difficult time with a faith crisis are those who believe everything is black and white. I said we had to do a better job at showing and teaching that there is a lot of grey areas and that it is okay for them to exist. Others mentioned “all the garbage on the Internet” and I commented that not all information on the Internet is a big lie about the church, but that we have some dark pieces of our history that are, in fact, true. Probably went to far at this point, but I mentioned my own personal experience from last year – how difficult and hurtful it was for me to learn about those true, dark chunks of history as I was preparing lessons in primary and to wonder why the church lied, oops, I mean was deceptive, err, I mean “wasn’t entirely honest” and upfront with me growing up as I was learning in seminary. I mentioned how the church members do beautiful and Christlike things that have touched me. I specifically mentioned how the young women in our ward “earned” the young women’s medallion for my daughter (who has a significant disability) by each completing some of the requirements necessary.
As more discussion continued and people focused on the importance of following the leaders, I mentioned that we needed to pray about what we heard them say and get our own confirmation that it is the truth and I mentioned the quote by Brigham Young about his worry that the membership would follow the leaders so closely that they would not think for themselves. A few more raised eyebrows…
Finally, near the end of the lesson, the question was posed on why people would want to leave in the first place. The stake patriarch said that it was because people have a desire to sin. That they no longer wanted to live by the commandments, but that they wanted to go out and break them. I mentioned that while that might be the case in some instances, there are many who leave about the history and the fact that the church was not upfront with it — then I had to make a quick exit as I teach Primary still during the second hour and we were going over.
Before sacrament meeting started, one of the High Priests in the class thanked me for my comments and said that he appreciated them. He mentioned some friends he had who went through some of the experiences I was mentioning. It was all civil and everything, but I guess now the High Priests Group knows where I stand.
Let me just refer everyone to here in the future: Priesthood lesson question
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?t=4230 I’m trying to have one thread for all lessons where we all can share tips and tricks:)
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