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mom3 wrote:
I am sort of choosing the wet blanket response here…
I begin with Dr. David Schnarches Ph.D.’s opinion that sex is always easier with a stranger. Sex when we get to know someone gets harder. Whether you started pre-maritally or not. The more we learn about our companion the more struggle we have.Both sides of a relationship affect the other. Sex affects the non-sexual relationship and vice-versa…In every relationship where sex is involved, one person is the High performance/need person and the other is Low. Period. You can change partners but it won’t guarantee a different outcome. Maybe your wife is the low compared to you, but if she married someone lower than her she is now the high. And if you are the high and looking for a match, so you trade up, there is no guarantee you won’t suddenly be the low. The disappointment, etc. This is not religiously affected. It happens to atheists as well as believers. Not for me; in my case sex was easy before I was married and even easier after I was married and was never really a source of resentment. For me the hardest part of marriage was simply things like nagging, loss of freedom/autonomy and feeling controlled, and lack of respect for my differences in personality, opinion, interests, values, goals, etc.
Old Timer wrote:And yet,
in just about every survey I’ve seen, fully active LDS members are at least as happy in their marriages as any other Christian group.As with so many things, this is not as simple an issue as people on both sides of the discussion tend to try to make it.
Maybe so, but what else are they going to say unless they are especially dissatisfied with their marriage and what do they really have to compare it against if they have only been married once? Basically they have already taken the plunge and adjusted to this as their lot in life going forward. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t doubt that it is certainly possible for people to get married fairly young to someone they don’t really know all that well and end up having a perfectly happy marriage I just think this general approach puts a lot of unnecessary reliance on pure luck and will typically be more difficult to fix in cases where people aren’t quite so lucky than being a little more careful and less anxious to get married as soon as possible would be as a general rule.
And to be fair I don’t think non-Mormons are necessarily all that careful about who they marry either in many cases, in fact it seems like many people quite literally put more thought into which car they want to buy than who they want to marry and why. Also, not all temple married Church members rush into marriage as fast as possible either, I know plenty that got married in their mid-to-late twenties, dated several different people before getting engaged, already had a decent career and were fairly mature when they were married, etc. so in cases like that I would say they are happy in spite of the very real pressure in the Church to get married ASAP, not because of it. Basically I think it is irresponsible of Church leaders like Ballard and Holland to push the idea of rushing into marriage as if real life is some kind of Disney movie where it will supposedly be love at first sight and then you will live happily ever after when the harsh reality is that many Church members would have been much better off taking their time to decide who to marry.
Studies show that people that live together before marriage are more likely to get divorced. However studies also show that if couples live together as part of a “trial marriage” then the percentage of divorce is not significantly higher than couples that do not live together before marriage.
The difference appears to be the level of commitment. There are individuals that are serially cohabitating and these individuals have the highest divorce rate. IMO when they get married the “piece of paper” of the marriage certificate really doesn’t mean so much because they have already been in and out of so many marriage-like relationships that what does one more really matter?
Should I ever be single again, I do not believe that I would want to play the field. I believe that I would long for a committed monogamous relationship. I believe that when I found the “right” individual that I would date them and perhaps be engaged to them for a long time. At this moment, I do not believe that we would move in together before marriage for the sake of propriety. Frankly, I have young kids at home and there are the expectations of extended family to deal with. Not getting remarried in the temple is one thing – living in “sin” is something else altogether.
As time passes the kids might grow up and the expectations of extended family might become less of an issue – or perhaps I will find myself wanting another temple marriage with all of that comes with it. Who knows?
In the mean time I am working on maintaining my current, first and only marriage. I like the song “broken together” in thinking about our relationship. She is not some superwoman cheerleader that fills all of my needs. I am not quite the white night that she once envisioned either. It is not always easy, but we love each other – flaws and all.
Unsure: Certainly no need for an argument. We all discuss from our own experiences. My LDS girlfriends and I discuss some basics. They are all very frequently intimate in their marriages. Some crazy stories come up. That is my reality.
I have a relative who married a low drive woman who had a history of being molested. Their marriage didn’t go great. He re-married. His second wife is another low drive person. From his perspective, all women are low drive. That is his reality.
My perception is that LDS men are often uncomfortable talking or thinking about LDS women who like sex. There seems to be a cultural belief that devout LDS women are not supposed to enjoy intimacy for simple physical pleasure — That women can only enjoy the cuddling and emotional relationship aspects of sex.
As a culture, it would be healthier — and improve some marriages — if women were allowed to claim their physical sexuality. I can imagine some young bride being told by her husband that he was going to take care of her by making sure he didn’t ask for “too much”. That attitude makes it really difficult for a young bride to really explore sexuality with him. It makes her an unequal partner and sets the situation up for failure.
To disagree with amature parent: I think MOST women would rank sex high on the list.
I know I would!
🙂 I cannot imagine a sexless marriage. That would be depressing for me, and I suspect many other women.
Dare I suggest that a woman who could thrive in a sexless marriage has not been properly…”sexed?” I mean, maybe her experience has been pretty lousy, so for her, there isn’t much pizzazz with sex. With that mindset, of course she could do without. For the rest of us…that’s the stuff dreams are made of!
:thumbup: I like the previous analogy of sex being a sport and the importance of both teams winning…and winning often.
To answer your question:
I have often said that if I suddenly found myself not married (for whatever reason), I would really, really want to explore some intimacy issues. What that means exactly, I’m not sure. But, I don’t think I could ever blindly go into another marriage. I’d at least want to put my eyes on what I was getting, ya know?
Living together? I’m game.
I had some teenage experiences with sex. Those were actually my darkest days, but in a way I’m glad that I was able to explore some aspects of that relationship before marriage.
Hope it helps and I hope that your marriage now works out the way it’s supposed to.
I am sure there are cases of lousy lovers being the cause of not desiring intimacy much. But having studied this quite a bit and what many therapist say, they agree there are marriages that fit both of what you describe. But there are some where it does not fit. I have had two therapists both say they can’t figure. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
QuestionAbound wrote:To disagree with amature parent:
I think MOST women would rank sex high on the list.
I know I would!
🙂 I cannot imagine a sexless marriage. That would be depressing for me, and I suspect many other women.
Dare I suggest that a woman who could thrive in a sexless marriage has not been properly…”sexed?” I mean, maybe her experience has been pretty lousy, so for her, there isn’t much pizzazz with sex. With that mindset, of course she could do without. For the rest of us…that’s the stuff dreams are made of!
:thumbup: I like the previous analogy of sex being a sport and the importance of both teams winning…and winning often.
To answer your question:
I have often said that if I suddenly found myself not married (for whatever reason), I would really, really want to explore some intimacy issues. What that means exactly, I’m not sure. But, I don’t think I could ever blindly go into another marriage. I’d at least want to put my eyes on what I was getting, ya know?
Living together? I’m game.
I had some teenage experiences with sex. Those were actually my darkest days, but in a way I’m glad that I was able to explore some aspects of that relationship before marriage.
Hope it helps and I hope that your marriage now works out the way it’s supposed to.
I think you’d be disagreeing with me, not AP. Just pointing that out.
🙂 Think I’m more or less done with the topic though.
QuestionAbound: Yeah .. You would be agreeing with me.
Nice to hear another woman stating that sex is a HIGH priority.
People are different. That simple statement applies to so many things.
[Admin Note]: This site does not advocate that members have sex outside of marriage. We support individual members finding their own faith and worshiping according to the dictates of their own consciences, but we do not encourage disregarding central practices. There are thousands of people who read regularly without commenting, and that needs to be stated and understood clearly.
Rather than rely on anectdotal information about whether men or women prioritize sex differently, here is an abstract from a large scale study conducted in 2011. Quote:
J Sex Marital Ther. 2011;37(2):104-15. doi: 10.1080/0092623X.2011.560531.Sexual and relationship satisfaction among heterosexual men and women: the importance of desired frequency of sex.
Smith A1, Lyons A, Ferris J, Richters J, Pitts M, Shelley J, Simpson JM.
Author information
Abstract
Little is known of the extent to which heterosexual couples are satisfied with their current frequency of sex and the degree to which this predicts overall sexual and relationship satisfaction. A population-based survey of 4,290 men and 4,366 women was conducted among Australians aged 16 to 64 years from a range of sociodemographic backgrounds, of whom 3,240 men and 3,304 women were in regular heterosexual relationships. Only 46% of men and 58% of women were satisfied with their current frequency of sex. Dissatisfied men were overwhelmingly likely to desire sex more frequently; among dissatisfied women, only two thirds wanted sex more frequently. Age was a significant factor but only for men, with those aged 35-44 years tending to be least satisfied. Men and women who were dissatisfied with their frequency of sex were also more likely to express overall lower sexual and relationship satisfaction. The authors’ findings not only highlight desired frequency of sex as a major factor in satisfaction, but also reveal important gender and other sociodemographic differences that need to be taken into account by researchers and therapists seeking to understand and improve sexual and relationship satisfaction among heterosexual couples. Other issues such as length of time spent having sex and practices engaged in may also be relevant, particularly for women.
What would you conclude from this study? Absent is whether the couples were married or living together, but it seems that men are more dissatisfied than women, and that even dissatisfied women don’t see greater frequency as a possible solution to the problem. Therefore, you can say men a more dissatisfied than women, and want sex more frequently than women to fix the problem Although there are fewer dissatisfied women than men, there are still a lot of dissatisfied women, but even their dissatisfaction doesn’t translate into a desire for more sex. Also, men in the 34 to 45 category also represent a highly dissatisfied segment of the population.
Old Timer wrote:[Admin Note]: This site does not advocate that members have sex outside of marriage. We support individual members finding their own faith and worshiping according to the dictates of their own consciences, but we do not encourage disregarding central practices.
There are thousands of people who read regularly without commenting, and that needs to be stated and understood clearly.
Just for the record, I wouldn’t encourage others to have sex outside of marriage or disregard central practices of the church. I was expressing opinions, which I admit may or may not be correct, that are shaped by the way my life has played out.
This is a complex topic and I don’t think there is a one size fits all approach.
unsure wrote:This is a complex topic and I don’t think there is a one size fits all approach.
I agree. I see this as essentially – “How can one maximize the chance of entering into a fulfilling, happy, and long lasting relationship.”
The church has a program that can be successful for many people. There are also people that use some portions of the program and not others and are happy and successful. There are also people that do not use this or any program but are happy and successful in their married life.
There are people in all of these groups that are unhappy and unsuccessful.
We StayLDSers are more keenly aware of the plight of individuals that thought that if they followed the LDS program that they would be happy and successful but for whatever reason it just did not turn out that way for them.
Old Timer wrote:[Admin Note]: This site does not advocate that members have sex outside of marriage. We support individual members finding their own faith and worshiping according to the dictates of their own consciences, but we do not encourage disregarding central practices.
There are thousands of people who read regularly without commenting, and that needs to be stated and understood clearly.
Thank you.
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