- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Another SUP-worthy WASM (is that an acronym in use? White Anglo-Saxon or Anglo/Scandinavian Mormon) here. RM, BYU grad, Temple-married with a family, active. I’m also a left-wing libertarian with plenty of disaffection towards cultural attitudes of the membership of the Church and a moral dilemma: should I allow my young child to watch the Testamentsmovie and corrupt said child’s young mind with cheesiness? But I fear this introduction is going to read kind of like a testimony anyway. I’ve had to re-examine my motives for staying active and re-define my expectations of the Church ever since I left my parents’ roof. Through the shifting understandings of doctrine and beliefs, the nearly chronic disappointment in the quality of instruction in SS and PH, intellectual wresting matches or spats with others on such topics as the Catholic Church and evolution, some things have drawn me along to look outside my own ego and its feelings and sensibilities to stay oriented in a direction that I feel as true, in keeping with definitions proposed by Alma the younger, William James and Carl Jung:
The Book of Mormon and its human burrs: the ambiguities, questions and complexities that I dig for in spite of the burnishing efforts of “I know the scriptures are true” slogans (and in honor of old Neil Maxwell’s lament about acting like hurried tourists). There was a time when the contested factuality of the book’s purported history mattered a great deal to me. Now, I keep very little interest in what archaeologists on either side say. I treat the book as the product of several personalities who reported their experiences with God, and in that regard it has yet to disappoint. Indeed, the burrs I mentioned convince me even more joyfully of its truth. Even if it were revealed to be some work of Divine fiction, why then, my hat off all the more to God for giving us such a truth-soaked work of fiction. (I still am fascinated in an anthropological sense with the different notions of placing the events geographically.)
My patriarchal blessing (which I am in the sporadic habit of calling, privately, my evangelical blessing or oracle). While I don’t presume that it came down by fax from heaven, I have seen its truth and suitability for me, and I meditate on passages from it in gratitude and wonder.
Jung, who I mentioned already. Reading his theories about archetypes and the unconscious has fit together in my mind an understanding of our doctrines of the provenance and divine destiny of our spirits that satisfies me so far. If I did not have the framework of our doctrines to fit it on, I doubt it would make such reassuring sense.
As such my attitude to mainstream Christianity is a bit prickly in spots. I respect and admire Catholics and Protestants for the strength of their convictions and their good works, but I feel this urge to identify myself as an infidel, or at least a heretical Christian in the eyes of the mainstream, and in fact when the Church PR folks get their “we’re Christians, honest!” thing on I always want to shake my head and say “no, no! Come on, dare to be different, bring on the persecution!”
I want the world to think we’re weird and even a bit scary – not just because we don’t drink coffee. I rejoice in others freaking out over the inverted stars on the Nauvoo Temple. I love those Bethlehem stars. I want one on a t-shirt. I love that Joseph Smith was into folk magic. This is almost certainly Jung’s fault again, with his treatment of alchemy and the occult. Stuff like Ouija boards and divination with tarot cards draw my scorn, but I would like to learn to play the European tarocco games.
Atheists with the courage to live moral lives draw my great respect, maybe because I do not see how I myself could bring myself to care about morality if I didn’t believe in . . . not just God, but the eternal nature of our souls. So maybe it’s not atheists per se that I should be respecting as much as those who can carry on with conscientious morality while convinced that when a man dieth, that is the end thereof. (It irks me therefore to see the label of “Korihor” slapped indiscriminately: he was no atheist.)
I hope one day to play my frame drum in Sacrament Meeting, or to attend one where someone is playing some kind of percussion instrument.
welcome aboard to staylds.com . you have an interesting, unique way of “saying how you see it” :clap: .Mike (BLC)
Hi R&B! Welcome. Thanks for sharing part of your story. I think you will find many kindred souls here.
Riceandbeans wrote:Jung, who I mentioned already. Reading his theories about archetypes and the unconscious has fit together in my mind an understanding of our doctrines of the provenance and divine destiny of our spirits that satisfies me so far. If I did not have the framework of our doctrines to fit it on, I doubt it would make such reassuring sense.
I feel that way about Joseph Campbell and his psychological/sociological exploration of mythology. I also wouldn’t be as interested in it, if it weren’t for the fascinating and alternative view point it creates for me in examining my religious narratives.
Riceandbeans wrote:I want the world to think we’re weird and even a bit scary – not just because we don’t drink coffee. I rejoice in others freaking out over the inverted stars on the Nauvoo Temple. I love those Bethlehem stars. I want one on a t-shirt. I love that Joseph Smith was into folk magic…. [snip]
I feel the same way sometimes. Instead of trying to be more boring and bland than the mainline protestants, we should be proud of our differences. And after spending a lot of serious time contemplating other religious styles and faiths, I think the connections with folk magic and freemasonry are a plus really. To me, Joseph was an eclectic prophet. I appreciate his tastes in picking some of the best ideas in his religious milieu, and his lack of inhibition against cracking open stale Christian dogma for fresh speculation.
Welcome! :thumbup: Riceandbeans wrote:White Anglo-Saxon or Anglo/Scandinavian Mormon) here.
Nah, I prefer the Australian expression Anglo-Celtic. Scots, Irish and Welsh people are not “Anglo-Saxon”. Only the English are. The Welsh are the hidden minority in the USA, and many people think they are of Irish descent when it’s in fact Scottish (all the Macs, no doubt). Johnny Cash is an example.
Love the reference to the BoM “soaked with truth”! Brian Johnston wrote:I feel the same way sometimes. Instead of trying to be more boring and bland than the mainline protestants, we should be proud of our differences. And after spending a lot of serious time contemplating other religious styles and faiths,
I think the connections with folk magic and freemasonry are a plus really.To me, Joseph was an eclectic prophet. I appreciate his tastes in picking some of the best ideas in his religious milieu, and his lack of inhibition against cracking open stale Christian dogma for fresh speculation. Yeah. I don’t understand what the church membership is so embarrassed about, and why they refuse to embrace their own history and religious roots.
I just don’t get it.
SamBee: Welsh – booyah! I don’t have Welsh ancestry but my DW does.
Brian Johnston, cwald:
I do often wonder what else might have been restored by now if the successive presidents of the Church had been half as fearless as Joseph was, and what might be waiting for us to claim as we shed our cultural inhibitions and desire to be liked — by the right sort of people of course.
cwald wrote:Brian Johnston wrote:I feel the same way sometimes. Instead of trying to be more boring and bland than the mainline protestants, we should be proud of our differences. And after spending a lot of serious time contemplating other religious styles and faiths,
I think the connections with folk magic and freemasonry are a plus really.To me, Joseph was an eclectic prophet. I appreciate his tastes in picking some of the best ideas in his religious milieu, and his lack of inhibition against cracking open stale Christian dogma for fresh speculation. Yeah. I don’t understand what the church membership is so embarrassed about, and why they refuse to embrace their own history and religious roots.
I just don’t get it.
I think it’s quite simple Cwald. We’re the weirdo in the school yard. We got picked on when we were small, and then got a bit of hassle from the State, and we’re desperately trying to look as if we’re a threat to no one, and just trying to fit in. The trouble with being ultra-normal, is it’s dull.
I could be speaking about myself here.
😆 Quote:SamBee:
Welsh – booyah! I don’t have Welsh ancestry but my DW does.
Yep, I was on vacation in Wales last year. Went with a friend, drove around… Really under rated place! The Welsh are the invisible minority in American history, partly because their identity is so language based. Once they became English speaking, they assimilated quickly. The Scots and the Irish had their own languages, but had identities that were less to do with language.
I don’t mind being peculiar – but I do mind members thinking we need to be peculiar in every way and not realizing those areas where our core doctrine really isn’t peculiar. Welcome. I hope you enjoy it here and we all can learn from you.
Well, with an intro like that, I can hardly wait to see what else follows! Welcome aboard. Riceandbeans, welcome to the group. I like your intro too. Very interesting.
Keep it coming!
Mike from Milton.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.