Church

[Anonymous]

Hello. I love my husband and I want to support him. I asked him if he wanted to go to Church Sunday, since we hadn’t been to our new ward and had moved into our new house over a month ago. I was in the car and ready to go ON time, which is a big plus on my half.

I honestly was excited to go. Trying not to let expectations rise, I thought positive and was pretty much ready for our new different ward in this BIG city.

I hate to analyze and judge but SM had two very positive elderly speakers speaking about the temple. Saying it was a little on the worship-y side might be an understatement They just got back from a mission in South America. One quote that struck me was “The temple is the real world, not the world outside the temple.”

Our SS was decent except it was about being coming closer to God (I think?) and the main focus was obedience to Church leaders(I agree to an extent-But it is not anywhere near first in line), going to Church (I agree) and charity(I agree). Not just any charity. Charity and helping those less fortunate=home teaching and visiting teaching.(?)

Lastly RS. The ladies were very nice to me. The meeting was on what JS thought about being a prophet. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. Unfortunately there was a lott of talk about the wolrd being evil and needing to protect ourselves from it. It was brought up that JS might have had flaws BUT whenever it seemed like he had flaws that was just him speaking like a man. Easy answer to just about anything ever gone “wrong” in Church history. It might be correct, I won’t knock it completely. RS is just SO full of emotion. DH really enjoys PH or EQ or whereever it is that he goes. The main thing I’ve come to notice between the two is in DH class they seem to lift up their wives and make fun of themselves. But in RS it is just the opposite. The woman, I think, lift themselves up pretty high – talking about evil worldly things and how we have to protect ourselves and stay away.

I don’t mean to pick at my three hour block. I had to tell someone these things and know that I’m not a jerk for thinking some things I’ve heard as being disappointing.

I honestly felt disappointed in the fellow members. I was upset that they agreed to charity being HT and VT. I was upset that they thought the temple was the “Real” world and the world isn’t. It bothered me that they had no problem with “flaws” and that The Church was true no matter what. I felt like an outsider looking in. I didn’t feel higher than them, I didn’t feel smarter than them. I felt out of place, I felt like I didn’t agree or understand. I felt sorry for them and at the same time I was disappointed of the bashing of the rest of the world .. I felt like the room was too small for me and I felt, for the first time, that just maybe Mormonism was too small for me.

Of course I WANTED to openly discuss this “Temple” talk with DH. Wrong thing to do. First time back to Church in months … 6 + months at least, and DH and I haven’t been more tense with eachother in a long time. Church made me sad, I felt so disappointed in the priorities of these fellow members of Christ .. It made me feel like an outsider .. mostly in RS. I want to participate in all of my classes but I am so shy. This is something I am working on and WILL change. How can I make next Sunday a better experience? At Church and at home?

This tension has been carried over to Monday and is ridiculous. Sorry this is a little long.

[Anonymous]

I don’t have anything profound and new, but I believe the following deeply:

“I Had No Idea There Were So Many With Needs” (http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1063)

“Understanding Disappointment: The SHORT answer” (http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=865)

[Anonymous]

Hi LaLaLove,

your post made me cry and I’m not a cryer (sp?) I feel soooo much of what you are feeling and it is so hard. I have been going to church all along because I have one more child at home who knows nothing about my heartache. I also want to go for my husband. But, I go to church and sometimes I feel so uplifted. Yesterday in Relief Society our teacher went over the talk by Brother Uchdorf from conference about love. It was so inspiring. But then in Sunday school we talked about Joseph Smith and how he is the most important person to ever come into the world save Jesus Christ. I wanted to run out of there yelling and screaming but I just sit there and take it.

Yes Ray, I do look for those people that might need me and I do find them. Especially sitting next to someone in Relief Society that is alone. But it still doesn’t stop those feelings you get when someone says things that you don’t agree with. I understand about having unrealistic expectations. I know that the teachers will teach these things because that is what they believe and I really do understand that. I don’t love them any less. I know that they are wonderful people with different thoughts than me. But it is still hard to change what you are feeling inside when they say these things. So do you have any ideas on how to change the way you feel????

[Anonymous]

My suggestion:

Truly enjoy the things that uplift you, that make you ponder and think in a positive way, savor them at Church and assimilate them. There is usually something on any given Sunday like that.

Then there are the things that irritate you. Someone will say or teach something you don’t agree with. If it truly isn’t important … well, then just let it go. They are on their own journey. We are very unlikely to find a lot of people that think and believe exactly like we do at any given point in our lives. We don’t even agree on a lot of things on this board, but somehow it all still works very good. We used to think everyone believed just like us (Stage 3 framework), that we pretty much believed what everyone believes (in our community/tribe). But that was never really the case.

Most important: We must make the conscious decision NOT to let irritating things ruin our enjoyment of beautiful things. We can’t escape this in life, not anywhere. We certainly will not escape it in our Church experience or in our families. I am responsible for my emotions. Nobody else can make me angry. Nobody else can make me happy.

The perfect church, one that agrees with everything we believe would be an grand and elaborate social organization of one.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the links Ray. I do understand unrealistic expectations. It is tricky because the definition of realistic and unrealistic are different for each individual.

I do have difficulty with claims I often hear about The Church being the one true organization when members of the group say things like charity is vt and ht etc. I can chalk it up to semantics, by realizing that the definitions of truth ,again, mean something different to each individual.

I guess I’m not 100% sure if my expectations are realistic or not. Of course I think they are realsitic but someone else might not agree.

I guess one simple example which I think I am realistic about would be the homosexual issue.

It disappoints me that MY Church that claims to be “True” and “The restored Church of Jesus Christ on the earth today” would not “Know” or at least have some insight (through God) to realize people are born gay. I really do expect them to “know” this and they don’t. Which in turn makes me feel like they aren’t who they say they are. How do you seperate yourself from unrealistic expectations when The Church imo breeds unrealistic expectations? Is the (homosexual) opinion very unrealistic of me? AND Us against the World .. I hear it ALL the time. I expect Church (the meetings) to be Christlike (after all it is Sunday and we are in a Church) iow I expect members to talk about non-mormons (aka people in the world) in a loving way, not so much a scared, condescending kind of way, you know how Christ might have thought of people untouched by the gospel. Is that a mentality that has just been passed down? Is it realistic of me to want and desire a “We are all in this together” type of attitude or am I messing with an unspoken group law..The law of having to warn and seperate the group from the enemy/evil etc., which in return is used as an example or comparison on how obedience to the group=happiness in order to lift the group up above another, some sort of We are the True Church because we are blessed and not like “them”. I know that all members don’t say things like this but I’m being realistic in saying I heard it in every meeting.

Peaceandjoy – I probably would have cried too if I was’t so numb to all of this! Feelings are tricky.

[Anonymous]

Valoel wrote:

My suggestion:

Truly enjoy the things that uplift you, that make you ponder and think in a positive way, savor them at Church and assimilate them. There is usually something on any given Sunday like that.

Then there are the things that irritate you. Someone will say or teach something you don’t agree with. If it truly isn’t important … well, then just let it go. They are on their own journey. We are very unlikely to find a lot of people that think and believe exactly like we do at any given point in our lives. We don’t even agree on a lot of things on this board, but somehow it all still works very good. We used to think everyone believed just like us (Stage 3 framework), that we pretty much believed what everyone believes (in our community/tribe). But that was never really the case.

Most important: We must make the conscious decision NOT to let irritating things ruin our enjoyment of beautiful things. We can’t escape this in life, not anywhere. We certainly will not escape it in our Church experience or in our families. I am responsible for my emotions. Nobody else can make me angry. Nobody else can make me happy.

The perfect church, one that agrees with everything we believe would be an grand and elaborate social organization of one.

“Just let it go” is important and wise.

It does make it difficult when it seems like everyone in the room is nodding in agreement to teachings I don’t agree with. Somedays it happens more often than not. Is it a normal feeling to feel like a wolf in sheeps clothing at times? Maybe a little on the dishonest side or is that getting into OTHER members unrealistic expectations and judgement?

Is does eat at me. Mainly because before this whole disaffection thing I studied Philosophy and Pyschology. I’m going to school for Pyschology. I feel like I can’t talk with DH about things I hear at Church..that make me go “Hmmmm” b/c he brings so much emotion into it and chalks it up to me being negative because I’m disaffected – It isn’t fair and it really really kills me. I like to discuss and ask what if and hear what he thinks. He is smart .. and sometimes agrees with me and sometimes understands me-I don’t want him to agree with me..I want him to think about things. He probably does and I end up looking like a chatterbox, needing to TALK outloud about it. It seems so easy for him – He is able to hear things at Church and like mentally ignore (or believe and agree) with teachings and not even talk about the meaning of life and gospel teachings and doctrine for the rest of the day or week, It is just there..you know, no need to talk about it. Maybe I need to let it go for a few months, years and try when we are both a little more mature to “discuss”.

[Anonymous]

Reading your posts looks like something that could be pulled straight out of my own head. You mention seeing everyone else in class nodding in agreement. I know that I have been angry at seeing everyone sitting there without correcting whatever line we’re being told and it’s upset me BUT reading your post makes it so obvious to me that I am not the only ‘wolf in sheeps clothing” because you’re feeling the same things that I am. I know that I sit in class and although my head is ready to explode from frustration because of one thing or another I rarely ever say anything so it MUST look like I am agreeing with the speaker/teacher. If you were in SS with me you would never know that in one minute I am sitting next to you in class but when I get home I’m unloading and searching for answers on forums like this.

My point is that I think you would be better off to assume that everyone sitting with you in class are supporting each other in whatever spiritual stage they are in. It helps me get through it to believe that I’m not alone and when I talk with other women at church I’m surprised by how often that assumption is correct.

[Anonymous]

from peaceandjoy:

Thanks Valoel. Yes, it is a great idea to just let it go. I know that and I do but it is hard sometimes. But I will try and try again. That is all I can do. I go up and down all the time and I’m sure I will have to be reminded of these things over and over again. So thanks.

[Anonymous]

At times when I feel my head is going to explode, I don’t hesitate to leave the room and take a walk around the building to help myself cool down.

[Anonymous]

Leaving the room is definately possible. I have a 14 month old girl who is too little to be in the nursery. She LOVES to sing .. But it’s always ten minutes after the song has ended. She helps me juggle attention between teacher/speaker and her. I do have little brakes … all the time just listening and entertaining her.

Mormonmama-I feel the same way. That because I’m sitting there and not saying anything, people must think I agree with the opinions/teachings of the speaker or teacher. Individually it is so much more simple to love and understand a person even if you don’t agree with them, but get in a group and it becomes a whole different situation, a difficult situation.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies. I have “Let it go”. It has taken .. about 24 hours. Not so bad .. room for improvemnet definately.

[Anonymous]

This thread is super-similar to the “Belief v. Unconditional Love”.

I sooooo feel for the posters here. Like I said there, it’s like I’m finally resigned to the situation and am now mourning the loss of sharing deeply, honestly, openly, with those who have decided to “embrace” the belief system. I know it doesn’t have to mean that there is nothing to share but it feels impossible to really discuss “meaning”, “symbolism”, “faith”, etc. with those whose belief is orthodox.

I guess this is the ultimate test of “stayingLDS”: participating physically/spiritually while constantly detaching from the “belief” part, which in most wards on most Sundays is the whole point of the discourse. Anyways, that’s kind of how I’m seeing it at this point.

I totally sense the ability to re-engage at a deeper, maybe even emotional, level at some point in the future, but the lively, thought-provoking, soul-inspiring discussions that we have here on this forum will just not be an expected part of the “bricks and mortar” church.

And, there it is: expectations. 😳

[Anonymous]

swimordie wrote:

This thread is super-similar to the “Belief v. Unconditional Love”.

I sooooo feel for the posters here. Like I said there, it’s like I’m finally resigned to the situation and am now mourning the loss of sharing deeply, honestly, openly, with those who have decided to “embrace” the belief system. I know it doesn’t have to mean that there is nothing to share but it feels impossible to really discuss “meaning”, “symbolism”, “faith”, etc. with those whose belief is orthodox.

I guess this is the ultimate test of “stayingLDS”: participating physically/spiritually while constantly detaching from the “belief” part, which in most wards on most Sundays is the whole point of the discourse. Anyways, that’s kind of how I’m seeing it at this point.

I would describe it as a numb feeling. I would also describe it as a “deer in the headlights” feeling as well. Discussions just happen so fast AND are so different or crazy or mindboggling (sp?) to you that you freeze and either don’t say anything, shake your head, curse to yourself, get up and leave or come up with something witty and amazing from your heart and hope people don’t look at you like some type of looney. I just say that because I don’t think it is too difficult to loose self-confidence at the stage I’m in .. when I feel “surrounded”.. and having almost always felt eyes on me at Church, in a judgemental kind of way .. even before I became disaffected, doesn’t help. I guess that feeling is normal in groups and is something I’m also slowly not giving a darn about.

I totally thought this “Test” would be cake .. until I went back to Church in my new ward. Oh there is also kind of an idiot kind of feeling going on as well .. Like “LaLaLove you are an idiot for thinking this is going to work, or make you happy here .. sitting wasting three hours of your week .. only to go home and play mind gymnastics for a day and a half before you go back to normal …. ” Then again I sacrafice for DH and also for the good I can do for someone else and the good I can possiby recieve by going to Church.

Whats really sad is I think if I was open to my new ward friends and leaders about what I really believe I think they wouldn’t understand why I go .. probably would think I would be better off not coming on Sundays … I hope it isn’t true BUT it is something stupid I think about from time to time.

[Anonymous]

LaLaLove,

I would hope you would be pleasantly surprised if you told your friends your feelings. At least in my ward I’ve told the bishop and one friend my feelings. They are so kind and loving. They actually feel very sorry that I have to go through this. They don’t smother me but are still my friends and love me for who I am just as I love them for who they are. But I’ve been too chicken to tell those friends of mine that I know might have a negative response. But if I did get one, then I would hope I could tell myself that is just the way they are and let it go as Valoel has said. Course I know that it is easier said than done that is for sure. I’ll let you know how it goes if I ever get the guts to tell my two very close? friends about this.

I do feel like I am not being my true self with them. That is a good question, should I tell my closest friends my feelings?

[Author]

Posts