- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
cwald wrote:
Somewhere on my journey, the spirit told me that things like beards, tea, blue shirts, beer etc etc were just man-made commandments. I tried to find the inner spirit…gave up and quit caring about what I considered to be Pharisaical practices…it was a distraction to me…kept me from really getting in tune with the gods.
For some…it helps them focus on the divine. For others….it keeps them from it, you know, always looking beyond the mark…concerned about the should and should nots.
Well said. We know that these things are not Doctrine, because “Doctrine” doesn’t change, but policy does. It is absolutely clear that Jesus drank and made fermented, high quality wine. The wedding story at Cana is quite funny:John 2:7-10 wrote:Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
High-quality, good wine isn’t the ‘new wine of the grape’…As well, Joseph Smith drank wine throughout his life, even to his last day, and both BY and JS drank beer — the word of wisdom encourages mild drinks made of barley — that is explicitly, “Beer”.
White shirts, beards, specific prohibitions — these are all man-made. By convention, as part of the eternal principle of ‘obedience’, we obey these ‘policies’ when it makes sense to do so. But we clearly have to recognize the difference between obeying policy and obeying god’s commandments.
For example, the Law of Chastity, defined as restricting sexual relations to marriage, is both policy and eternal principle. The interpretation of what constituted marriage in the past may be different: for example, among Jews, sex after betrothal meant that you were ‘married’, it didn’t mean that you sinned. I’m not sure I want to interpret it that way, but that’s how the Law of Chastity was once interpreted. As well, a married man having sex with an unmarried woman was not adultery in the OT. Adultery was sex with a married woman, whether or not the man was married. Interesting cultural application there — again, I’m glad we interpret the LoC differently today.
But the Law of Chastity does not directy cover a number of things outside of ‘sexual relations’, as in masturbation etc. Some in the church would like to build a fence around the law, meaning to broaden the law so as to cover a lot of other things, but this broadening of the law is exactly the thing that Jesus found reprehensible in the pharisees.
Oh. SD asked me to clarify what I meant by “church discipline.” I want to be fair.
No, I did not go through church court. Sorry about that confusion. My family pushed for excommunication through the SP, but BP found no reason to do so, and told the SP.
The message from SP….I was told to turn in my TR and released from callings, and threatened with additional church discipline if I continued to do the whole JD thing…that is why I left stayLDS for a few months…and I just quit going to church altogether…Nothing ever came from it.
mercyngrace wrote:cwald wrote:The spirit has told me that the Lds church is a divine pathway, one of many, that people can follow to find the gods and peace…in this life, and perhaps the next.
That is good enough for me at this time.
Not sure what else to say.
What you have said is more than enough.
Ordinances are all symbolic. Callings are all opportunities for growth. Neither of these inherently defines our place along the path of eternal progression. Stay on the path and let the spirit lead you. The God we worship does not expect you to mindlessly conform. He expects you to become. These are vastly different processes. One works from the outside in and the other from the inside out.
You are doing the latter, cwald, trust in the process even if others around you lack the faith to do so.
Peace in the journey.
Yes, thanks.
Yeah, things are different at MDDB. I’m thinking there were some PMs and perhaps some butt chewing behind the scenes. It’s all good. I don’t expect to be spending a lot of time there. I’m mostly interesting in following the John Dehlin threads….prepare myself for what many church leaders and rank and file members are hearing and saying…and believing as far the “wolf in sheep clothing” rhetoric is concerned.
I feel a little like a kite without a tether in the world of online Mormonism since I have pulled away from that board. This board has been my second home as I found it later and the Mormon Discussions board, where I only recently started posting with any frequency, is a difficult place to discuss matters of faith because most of the regulars don’t share my beliefs. They’ve been accepting and tolerant of me personally but I don’t expect to be able to discuss what or why I believe in the manner I’d like. Nor would I push that kind of discussion anywhere it wasn’t welcome or personally beneficial. Live and let live, you know? Still, the posters there are a fun group and I value the relationships I am making with them, just as I do those I’ve made on more pro-LDS sites. This whole Dehlin-Peterson-MI business is a curious affair and I am trying hard to withhold judgment and sort fact from opinion, just because it has become the issue of the day among much of online Mormonism but there is so much fact mingled with fiction that I’ve all but given up. Maybe you will have better luck than I have.
mercyngrace wrote:…This whole Dehlin-Peterson-MI business is a curious affair and I am trying hard to withhold judgment and sort fact from opinion, just because it has become the issue of the day among much of online Mormonism but there is so much fact mingled with fiction that I’ve all but given up. Maybe you will have better luck than I have.
Not yet I haven’t.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.