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I’m looking at it in more of a relative cost / benefit perspective. I would rather members of my family engage in some form of religious and spiritual pursuit than nothing at all. I guess I don’t perceive the possibility of sometimes attending another church with my family as some great disconnection or rejection of Mormonism.
This is what I thought you might say — it would be a recognition of truth everywhere — and that truth is not mutually exclusive. I understand that route, and if I was a single person, I’d do it to. Change is refreshing when the existing religion is a huge repetitive grind like I find the church at this point in my life.
For me, it entails too much risk. Everyone else is unified, so I want to provide that stability — even though others here seem to think that too can cause disaffection. So far it’s working so…I flow with it.
I heard a quote the other day that I’m going to try to follow “I don’t care what you believe, but BELIEVE”. (But that’s only me, and subject to change if I get a whim. I’m learning that I have no commitment to my ideas).
Brian Johnston wrote:It would be nifty if God waved a magic wand and the world turned into the perfect ideal, a reality modeled after vision through rose-colored glasses.
Wait
:shifty: …are you suggesting I stop waiting for the “magic wand” of the millennium? I was banking on that happening so it would clear away all my credit card debt. Dangit!I have been actually doing this for almost a year now. When I first moved to Florida last April, I attended RS for awhile. I attended the Port Orange Christian church’ sermon from the Pastor at 9 am then ran to Sunday School at the Nazerene at 10:30 and then to RS. It was too much, especially during the week when I attended two different churches Women’s Bible study classes as well. I was alone for 6 months cause my husband had to arrange his job transfer still at the time and try to sell our house in Iowa. But, there was good stuff in all these churchesand it was a great way to make new friends. When my kids came to visit from out of town they loved that we were no long active in the lds church and we felt more united visiting the Nazerene church. The thing is we like this Nazerene best for their love of Christ and social factor but there is no church we feel sure of the doctrines of. When ou bishop came to our house that one time last October to see where we were at, he asked if we were planning on joining any of these other churches. We said, no, we were just checking other churches out. He asked if we knew for sure the Mormon church was false and we said no. He seemed relieved and said we were welcomed back to the lds church at any time.
Port Orange church sent me an email today to go with their group to the Orlanda resort, “The Holy Land Experience.”
http://www.holylandexperience.com on March 19th. This sounds wonderful. So right now we art doing the admonition of Paul–“Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.”bridget_night wrote:I have been actually doing this for almost a year now. When I first moved to Florida last April, I attended RS for awhile. I attended the Port Orange Christian church’ sermon from the Pastor at 9 am then ran to Sunday School at the Nazerene at 10:30 and then to RS. It was too much, especially during the week when I attended two different churches Women’s Bible study classes as well.
Bridget and Journey, have you found any judgments from some of your new friends that you are not committed to the new faith’s doctrines enough to sever your ties with the LDS? Or is complete “conversion” less important in these other christian faiths?
Good question Roy. I too wondered if that would happen. So, far that does not come up or is important. The various churches mention and put in their bulletins that anyone interested in membership classes and baptims to sign up, but no one asks us about it. Even our Nazerene pastor who knows our Mormon background and told us once he had studied the Mormon church and got an answer about it, has not called us in to talk to him. I think just accepting Jesus seems to be what matters most. They do not push which demonination you belong to matters. In fact the churches that we have attended often work together for causes and give park sermons together. Very different, yet very nice. bridget_night wrote:He asked if we knew for sure the Mormon church was false and we said no. He seemed relieved and said we were welcomed back to the lds church at any time.
I think my answer would have to be, “Oh, I’m sure, all right. It’s definitely false. And it’s definitely true. It’s good, and it’s bad. I belong here, and I don’t belong here.”
Hey Tom, I feel both ways too and it is frustrating.
I think the “I’m sure” comes from Fowler’s Individuative-Reflective Faith stage, and the paradox comes from his Conjunctive Faith stage I’ve seriously been considering looking at the 7th Day Adventists. I’m not interested in joining, but they do have the double bonus of having their meeting on a different day!!! (Actually I do agree with them on at least one thing – why was the Sabbath changed to Sunday?!) Roy wrote:bridget_night wrote:Bridget and Journey, have you found any judgments from some of your new friends that you are not committed to the new faith’s doctrines enough to sever your ties with the LDS? Or is complete “conversion” less important in these other christian faiths?
No one has asked us to convert. There’s a class schedule if you’d like to become a member. We have felt no pressure from anyone. I especially enjoy meditation during the meetings and the way they have you stand up and introduce yourself to others around you whether you know them or not. Where I get uncomfortable is in the passing of tithing trays. I wish this was done in an envelope in secret. Other than that one thing, it’s all been a positive experience. Where else can you go to church and hear the preacher say bull****. Normally I would be shocked by that but my learning has taken me to understand that words are just words. We attach the meaning to them and make them dirty (Our filthy little minds).
My commitment to the mormon church is based on fear. I’m afraid of outer darkness too much to quit the mormon church.
Journey wrote:My commitment to the mormon church is based on fear. I’m afraid of outer darkness too much to quit the mormon church.
I think fear and stress are two things we place upon ourselves, regardless of reality outside of us. I don’t believe the church is a church of fear, but a church of love…however, I have had to recognize where my fears about not being perfect at church come from, and root that out with other thoughts and I find that the church focuses on love and if I can let that in, it dispels the fear just like the light dispels darkness.
There is a good conference talk about this that you may want to read. (Nov 1981, Ensign. “People to People” by David B Haight)
http://lds.org/ensign/1981/11/people-to-people?lang=enghttp://lds.org/ensign/1981/11/people-to-people?lang=eng” class=”bbcode_url”> Heber13 wrote:Journey wrote:I think fear and stress are two things we place upon ourselves, regardless of reality outside of us. I don’t believe the church is a church of fear, but a church of love…however, I have had to recognize where my fears about not being perfect at church come from, and root that out with other thoughts and I find that the church focuses on love and if I can let that in, it dispels the fear just like the light dispels darkness.
When one is compliant, they hear truth and love. When one is non-compliant or questions, there will be a remembrance of the penalties of sin whether those penalties be true or fallacies. Where you grew up in relation to the church also has an impact. Although the doctrine is the same, the messengers are different. The climate in the east is much different than the climate in the west.
Every day my perception changes. Every day I learn one or more things differently than what I had known before and every day I draw nearer to letting go of religion and standing on my own, seeking the kingdom within, without much thought to or reliance on any person, place or thing for validation of the Self. The more I study and search for the truth, the farther away I get from anything that had meaning before and the more I realize that anything with meaning before only had it because I assigned it a value. The attachment to things of this world have been great and caused much pain. The things in and of themselves have not caused pain but rather the attachment to them. Religion is something I have been deeply attached to. Who is wrong, who is right, who is going to heaven, who is not, who is a true prophet, who is not. I’ve spent so much time trying to decide on right or wrong that I’ve neglected the nurturing of the spirit.
So what should I be looking for? Myself. The true self that was created by the one true voice on earth (physical body) and in heaven (spiritual body). The voice that speaks to me personally and who has invested much time in my souls progression. The time has come to seek the one true relationship that has value – the one with a Loving Father in Heaven and not the belonging to a church. God is not in a church but rather lives inside the soul. The illusion is believing there’s a separation from him and constantly seeking things outside the self for the truth. The truth lies within.
Church is a stepping stone to the truth and once on the other side there’s no longer a need for their assistance (Unless of course there’s a plan to go back and forth). The juggling is over.
Journey wrote:When one is compliant, they hear truth and love. When one is non-compliant or questions, there will be a remembrance of the penalties of sin whether those penalties be true or fallacies. Where you grew up in relation to the church also has an impact. Although the doctrine is the same, the messengers are different. The climate in the east is much different than the climate in the west.
I generally agree…it seems as if the penalties or sin is what is brought up by people if there is deviation from the norm. I think what others say reflects things about them and what they fear, but it doesn’t necessarily mean I have to agree with them that their ideas are more valid than mine, or that they represent the church teachings anymore than my opinions do. They can preach fear to me and live by that principle if they choose, and for many it can help them for a short-time keep order and obedience…but I don’t have to fear in the church unless I choose to let it scare me. IOW, I don’t think the Church must have fear…I think people create it, and I can choose to let that go and stay in the church.
When I was a child, I always got so scared at nights when my dad made me bring the garbage cans down to the road in the dark of night. Regardless of whether there was any real danger or not…I created a real, tangible fear that motivated me to run to the curb and back. My point is even if there is no truth to it…I have at time made that fear real in my head. When I let go of fear, I can be in the same place and realize there is nothing to fear.
I have had my spouse, my in-laws, my brother and people in my ward warn me strongly about the path I’m on and the repercussions it can have on my family throughout all eternity…but that is ok. They care about me, even if they don’t understand me. When they can get past their own fears, and see me striving to stay close to God and be a good person to others, they will see there is nothing to fear about the way I have chosen to define my faith. But an initial reaction to my new ideas scares them and they react to that. Again, I think that is more about them than about me, and that is OK.
And then I find that there is a place for me in church, whether others agree with me or not…because church is there to help us all come closer to Christ…even when we are imperfect. Some may have different motivations for being involved at church, but my experience is that fear does NOT have to be one, but I completely agree with you that others may at times use that in the church, like they do in many other churches and religions. But it is not the true motivator for becoming Christ-like, IMO.
I grew up in the East, and see that the church is much different back East than in the West where I now live. Sometimes I miss that.
I think it is good to check out other churches from time to time if you want, and take a break from our church if needed…but eventually we all have to become comfortable with our own faith and thoughts, as you have said, and have a personal relationship with God. As I’ve done that, I’ve returned to church with more appreciation for wanting to be involved at church, and see there are things there that I cannot learn if I was to try to find God on my own with no church, mostly because church gives me an opportunity to practice and strengthen the 2 great commandments. At least, that has been my experience so far.
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