- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Since we are talking about service, I wanted to share some thoughts from Brad Wilcox, who is a celebrity speaker in my family. My wife loves to hear him speak at conferences, and so does my daughter. My wife shared with me a talk he gave about church service NOT being a ladder. This is a companion to the talks on not “seeking for position” in the church. In the church, we are not taught to seek after progressive leadership positions — to serve wherever they put us happily. One famous story is about Stephen R. Covey who is a management guru, and who was asked to teach primary. Apparently he wasn’t very good at it — the reports were that he was boring.
And of course, the Unwritten Order of Thing by Boyd K Packer tends to promulgate the idea that you serve where you are needed until you are no longer desired in that position. It sounds independent of personal desires. Our local SP members years ago said never to refuse a calling, just tell the person doing the interview about your situation, and let HIM decide. Again, taking the stance that our lives are not our own in the church.
Brad Wilcox reached the conclusion that church service is not a ladder. It is a train track. It was clear that it was not about upwardly mobile service. It was about leading toward fulfilling the mission of the church.
Is this a wise analogy? Obviously, I don’t think it is for reasons I can give at some other point (independent of my own life experience, not referring to it).
Frankly I don’t think it’s either. I don’t believe we buy our way into the CK through church service. I do think it’s essential to love our neighbors and church service can provide opportunities to do so, but our neighbors are everywhere all the time. DarkJedi wrote:Frankly I don’t think it’s either. I don’t believe we buy our way into the CK through church service. I do think it’s essential to love our neighbors and church service can provide opportunities to do so, but our neighbors are everywhere all the time.
I was thinking a bit of the same – and Brad Wilcox is one of the biggest promoters that “we don’t earn our way into heaven – it is Grace that does that”Trick Question – Church service is both! If I were being considered for a leadership calling I imagine that the decision makers would look at my previous experience in callings, professional, and home life as a background on whether or not I might be successful in this new position. In that regard early callings could very well be seen as stepping stones/ladder rungs to bigger callings later on.
I could also see some push back if someone who has been successful in high profile callings in the past wants to scale back and serve in an “easy” calling from now on. They might be called a “bench warmer.” (I’m looking at you SD).
The crux of the matter is that it is not to be the individual but rather the church that is in the driver seat. The traditional wisdom goes that the individual should not place limits on the service (either to stipulate that they will only serve in “big and important” callings or that they will only serve in less demanding callings) as this would add hurdles to where the church (and God) could make use of them.
I don’t think having a calling you absolutely loathe yet trying to stick it out because we are programmed to never say no, (I’ve heard is like telling the Saviour no in his face to refuse a calling) is very edifying. I was called to a RS calling but I did not attend RS meeting very often. It made me dread Sundays. I finally became inactive. I feel guilty oftentimes for not “magnifying” my calling and wondering if it is the equivalent of saying no to Jesus while other times I wondered if the leaders were just trying to coerse me in attending RS regularly. I was fine with being the adult SS teacher. But most of the time I cut out after SS. I didn’t like the RS manual and the group was mostly TBMs. They weren’t all that tolerant of divergence from the manual. To avoid a train wreck of causing contention in the class and likely many meetings with bishopric I stopped trying to engineer the train altogether. rachael wrote:I don’t think having a calling you absolutely loathe yet trying to stick it out because we are programmed to never say no, (I’ve heard is like telling the Saviour no in his face to refuse a calling) is very edifying. I was called to a RS calling but I did not attend RS meeting very often. It made me dread Sundays. I finally became inactive. I feel guilty oftentimes for not “magnifying” my calling and wondering if it is the equivalent of saying no to Jesus while other times I wondered if the leaders were just trying to coerse me in attending RS regularly.
It has been helpful for me to disentangle my relationship with God and Jesus with my relationship with the church. They are not the same.
In a more irreverant mood… If declining a calling is the equivalent to telling the “Saviour no in his face” wouldn’t that make a person a de facto Son of Perdition?
😈 Quote:It has been helpful for me to disentangle my relationship with God and Jesus with my relationship with the church. They are not the same.
Yep, and Elder Poelman said the same thing in a talk a few decades ago…and got edited. But I agree wholeheartedly with this…this was the initial crack in my testimony (crack, or piece of truth? — we will have to wait to find out). I saw that leaders didn’t live the ideals they preached on Sunday, and it caused me to separate the church as an organization from the gospel.
I would like to add that church service is a ladder for some, a train track for others, and for others, a simple act of duty. A wise leader will find out the motives and desires of their volunteers and try to find positions that fit the bill, as much as possible. For some, it will be a leadership position, for others, it will be a path to being more Christlike, and for others, it may well be something they just do out of a sense of obligation or duty.
Maybe a train track going up a mountain? You come around again and again to the same spot, but each time is a little different. (I think the whole aspiring to callings pitfall is less of an issue for women, although I’m sure there are lots who peg their stature to their husbands’ callings. I kind of did.) I think for some members it’s a ladder. I’ve been through too many wards not to see those men and women who aspire to leadership callings. There’s simply too much status associated with being a bishop or a relief society president for that NOT to be an issue. Now, I think most of these people do want to do the right thing and they most likely see this aspiration as a thing to overcome. A relative of mine served as a mission president and his first calling after his term was over was as a primary teacher. He was NOT HAPPY about that calling. To his credit, however, he got to a point where he really enjoyed teaching primary and forged a good relationship with his primary students. For others it’s a train track, they simply take joy in serving others and don’t think about it in any other way. I think what that means is that if you see that your ability to do your duty is compromised, you go to your leader and say, “I can’t do this effectively anymore.” This notion that it is “sinful” to refuse a calling or ask to be released is just nonsense (of course, it really depends on your motivations for the refusal). If you talk to any bishop you will find that this kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME. My father was a bishop when I was young and complained regularly about how many ward members refused to work in the primary. I was in a calling that I didn’t really care for for over two years (it was an easy one but I just didn’t like it). I was called to another position (it didn’t conflict with the first) and for a while had two callings. Finally, I went to the bishop and asked to be released from the first. I felt the demands of the second calling were sufficient to ask to be released from my long tenure with the first. I didn’t feel one bit guilty about it.
Roy: yes I have guilt about the thoughts that maybe I’m a daughter of perdition sometimes for not enduring that particular calling. As I said, the class was mostly TBMs and new converts. The manual was focused on infallibility of modern leaders and obedience… whatever was on the menu for 2010 or 2011. I couldn’t stomach indoctrinating the newbies or being a band wagon jumper-on-er with the TBMs. Perhaps I was petty or couldn’t see the forest for the trees. Maybe selfish, disobedient, stiff neck– insert whatever character flaw–etc. I actually feel much more spiritual being inactive. Attending regularly seems to bring out resentment and anger. I did not have a temple marriage, didn’t really enjoy being a mother nor domestic duties (tho I LOVE my daughters very much), and feeling like an oddball and a general failure. Hearing all the motherhood sermons, that we must enjoy the company of the saints (when I couldn’t wait for church to be over so I could get away from the vast majority of them), the infallibility of leaders yet telling us to read scriptures while they are usurping there tenets (even JS with polygamy), white washing history, etc., is not condusive to feel the Spirit. Nor is being inactive and feeling an unprofitable handmaid/servant. But I’m grateful to find this place. I can feel comfortable fellowshipping here without fearing reprisal.
I should really think I would be busting through the church doors every time they open be a former ex’d member. But I have a fear of local leaders who can arbitrarily discipline one for not conforming to every jot and tittle.
Roy wrote:In a more irreverant mood… If declining a calling is the equivalent to telling the “Saviour no in his face” wouldn’t that make a person a de facto Son of Perdition?
rachael wrote:Roy: yes I have guilt about the thoughts that maybe I’m a daughter of perdition sometimes for not enduring that particular calling.
Rachel, I wrote that as a completely sarcastic remark. Doctrinally, I know of only one Son of Perdition and that was Cain. The other famous example would be Judas Iscariot but Spencer W. Kimball wrote that Judas did not act with complete knowledge because he did not have access to the holy ghost and therefore could not have been a Son of Perdition. I have also read that it would be virtually impossible for a typical LDS member become an SoP, as we do not have enough “sure knowledge” to qualify.
I believe in a God that loves and accepts his children and is understanding and very forgiving of our infantlike status as we journey through life. I believe that you are His beloved daughter and are of infinite worth (not potential [which is another discussion altogether] but rather actual intrinsic worth). I understand that it is easier said than done to see oneself in this light.
Quote:For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. – Isaiah 55:9
I think most people will be shocked and overwhelmed when they look around after death and realize how many people they thought would be outside “heaven” actually are there – using heaven as the generic term for being in the presence of God. I think we do our best to understand what it means to be God and godlike, but that we see through our glasses, darkly. I read about long-suffering (allowing) and choose to believe God smiles down on us, probably with a tear in his eye, understands our fear and self-doubt and, in the end, will greet us with open arms and much, much more grace than we tend to think we deserve.
Ray, I love what you wrote:
Quote:I read about long-suffering (allowing) and choose to believe God smiles down on us, probably with a tear in his eye, understands our fear and self-doubt and, in the end, will greet us with open arms and much, much more grace than we tend to think we deserve.
I think you are right. That being said, I am surprised no one has picked up on the obvious that sometimes church service is a train wreck. There are definitely ladders involved, where you don’t see a bishop called (usually) unless he has served in leadership elsewhere first. And there are plenty who view service as a train track, but there are many train wrecks, and they too are part of serving. I remember the story of my dad (a total TBM) who was asked to serve as scoutmaster. He hated scouting, camping, etc, and wasn’t great with the youth. He was very shy. He told the bishop he didn’t feel the calling was a good fit and they should ask someone else. They sustained him anyway. Six weeks later he was released.
Life happens, and sometimes a calling fits, and sometimes it doesn’t. The Lord knows what is in our hearts, and we do the best we can. And Rachael, if you feel closer to God by not attending church, then that is right for you at this time. I knew a family once that had been reactivated. They stayed in the church for less than a year. When I saw her again I asked why they stopped attending. She told me their life was happier without the church in it. She was very sincere, and they weren’t sinning or anything, she just found that their family life was more calm and peaceful when they didn’t attend church. What can you say to that except good for you, you have found peace.
I think we all understand that church service can be wonderful, horrible and every point between those two extremes. I think we forget sometimes (or even lack the experience to know) that the same is true of all church service no matter the denomination or religion – and of all community service no matter the organization – and all company service no matter the corporation – etc. Service is what it is, dependent on the leadership, the preparation, the compatibility with those doing the service, life things outside anyone’s control, and so much more. We do some service things extremely well, especially large-scale things that require quick response; we so some things quite poorly, especially local community service at the individual level.
Thanks Roy, E4T, Ray and others. The Spirit seems to be here and I believe you all are an inspired and inspiring bunch. I wish the leadership would administer Carl Jung personality tests before administering callings
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.