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Skipped sacrament meeting cause I was attending sleeping-in services in my bed. The spirit didn’t move me to arise until about 9:30am, and SM is at 9am. Sunday School was fun. We were talking about the Joseph Smith Translation of Matthew (which covers Matt chpt 23 & 24), which is mostly about the second coming. They actually dared to bring up Camping and the May 21st failed end-of-the-world prophecy. This led to a discussion about false prophets, and how silly they are. A dear sister who doesn’t make it out to SS a lot was in the room, and she made the controversial comment before I got to it — that early LDS Church leaders had similar beliefs in the late 1800’s believing the end of the world would happen in their lifetime (very soon) and that was a big push behind gathering to Zion (wherever that was located). That didn’t happen like they expected either. They were wrong, but that isn’t the point of being prepared for the second coming.
I went to find her after Church to talk to her again. I already suspected this, but she and her husband are very fringe types like those you would find here in this community. We talked in the hallway for a few minutes about the Richard Poll article talking about the difference between Liahona and Iron Rod Mormons (she brought it up). She also said several times how this type of stuff needs to be discussed more often in Church to add balance. I wanted to give her a great big hug
Another brother in the class who makes a LOT of comments in classes surprised me (I had him pegged for pretty literal and conservative). He threw out a funny comment in response to false prophets telling lies mixed with truth in the form of skilled debate. He said “Just like what you hear on conservative / republican talk radio.” LOL. Half the room groaned and half laughed. It was perfectly timed
Hey Brian, Thanks for sharing that. I still remember when I was in a RS class and the discussion was on following the prophet no matter what. I brought up the point that it is our individual responsiblity to get a confirmation from the Holy Spirit that what the prophet is saying IS from God and not just his personal opinion. Otherwise, we would be just as the fundamentalist Mormons, who believe Jeff Warrens is their prophet and do whatever he says. Many of his followers still believe Jeff Warrens is a prophet even though he is in jail for his crimes. The sister’s mumbled yes with the teacher but you could tell the uncomfortableness right away with my comments as they moved on quickly. I understand that it is uncomfortable to compare our prophets with Jeff Warren, but there is alot of deceptions out there and if you just believe because you were told to all your life, it can be a disaster. God gave us a brain to use it but I often think many people are like sheep and don’t want to have to do the tough thinking and praying. This is why I like BY talk on Personal responsbility I have quoted on this site a few times:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2251&p=26869&hilit=Personal+responsiblity#p26869 Sleeping Services are good. As an exaggeration of this principle, for the last two weeks, halfway through the service my son keels over and falls asleep in the pew. He’s 8 but the size of a 6 year old, and at least he’s there and not causing trouble. Someone approached me at the end of Sacrament meeting and said “I’d like to see if your approach to parenting actually works eventually; it’s different than the way most folks do it”. I wasn’t sure if it was a complement or a veiled attempt to get me to be more authoritative with my son’s behavior at Church, as I get complements on my kids pretty regularly…but this one was given while commenting on my son who was fast asleep in the pew after the meeting ended. A lady who was baptized yesterday was confirmed today. She wore a summer dress that went to about 4-5 inches above her knees, had an open back (showing her two tattoos just inside her shoulders) and, because of her ample chest, showed a bit of cleavage (even though the dress had a cami-like piece in front). I didn’t see her right ear, but she has seven earrings in her left ear. Our Sunday School lesson was on the arrest and trial of Jesus, and there were multiple possibilities discussed about each event, including various interpretations of Judas and Peter’s actions.
The Priesthood lesson was on Family Responsibilities, and, although there were a couple of cringe-worthy comments, the lesson overall was excellent – stressing “equal partners” and discussing what empty nesters can do even if they have no immediate family nearby.
Cool story Ray. Sounds like an interesting lady. Cons: -Had to sit on the hard metal overflow chairs (again). There are only padded pews for about 40% of the ward. Bad planning.
-Speaker rambled a bit on topics I disagreed with her interpretation of.
-Had to chase the 2 year old around for the last half of sacrament
-Stake instituted a new bathroom policy where no men are allowed in the bathroom at the same time as a child unless they are the parent of said child. Sad world we live in.
Pros:
-actually felt a bit spiritual in Sunday School (Lesson on Christ crucifixion)
-PH was ok and at least a little thought provoking
-got released from nursery (it might be a Con depending on if I get a worse calling!)
Quote:Sad world we live in.
Amen, Brown. Amen, and amen.
Brown wrote:-Had to chase the 2 year old around for the last half of sacrament
When I had little ones, this was on my list of Pros
Brown wrote:Stake instituted a new bathroom policy where no men are allowed in the bathroom at the same time as a child unless they are the parent of said child.
😯 Yikes. You know they didn’t think of that out of the blue. It is sad.😥 Brown wrote:-actually felt a bit spiritual in Sunday School (Lesson on Christ crucifixion)
Nice!
:thumbup: Thanks for sharing.
Well, my wife decided to skip Sacrament again, which made my son start asking questions I had to sidestep. He lay on the floor again but stayed on the pew most of the time. Fell fast asleep — I read about the origin of a rock group I’m interested in, cleaned out my messenger bag, found my cell phone, and found the last 10 minutes of the keynote speaker interesting. It had nothing to do with the gospel — just interesting stories about his life, my realization he’s unemployed, and having a good attitude about it. CAme home, and asked my wife if sitting in an LDS Pew produces the Pavlovian response of drowsiness, to which she agreed. I have a really hard time understanding why the people at the top don’t recognize that a lifetime of slow meetings like that does NOT uplift the majority of the members. I think I will plan a day away with my family next week as it’s becoming intolerable again.
Another good thing — they have installed an interesting, intelligent Gospel Doctrine teacher, releasing a woman who distributed a highly nasty note about me to the entire Ward leadership a couple years ago, and who I find a very wearing teacher even on a good day…so I will start attending Gospel Doctrine again. Today, I holed up in a room and read the scriptures and a talk by Bednar which I found uplifting.
As part of the Branch Conference I attended today, I taught the Gospel Doctrine class. The lesson was on our Stake Theme this year – the questions in Alma 5:14 about being born of God, having his image engraven in our countenances and experiencing a mighty change of heart. I compared the structure of Alma 5 to Matthew 5, 2 Peter 1 and D&C 4 – other passages that list characteristics we need to develop in order to become like the Father and the Son. I also referenced Malachi 3, the passage about tithes and offerings we quote often that starts with a rhetorical question and then answers it – just like happens in Alma. I then talked about Mosiah 5, where 41 years earlier ALL except the very small children expressed that they had experienced a mighty change of heart. I explained that Alma’s questions were rhetorical for the oldest generations who heard him teach and a direct, comparative question for those who had not been born or had been too young to be part of the former experience.
We discussed a few of Alma’s questions and shared experiences that had helped us be more in line with those questions – and I ended the lesson by talking about how the fulfillment of his focus (becoming more like God through a re-birth, receiving His image, experiencing a mighty change of heart and singing the song of redeeming love) has to be an individual pursuit outside of church attendance. I stressed that church attendance can be a great place to build a community of worshipers and supporters and recharge our spiritual batteries, but that we can’t expect the Church to be the source of the spiritual growth that makes us become more like God. I also stressed that each of us has to find a way to accomplish this in our own individual way – that what works for me might not work for anyone else there and, therefore, none of us can blame anyone else if we don’t find what really does work for us. We need to share what works for us, since there might be something that does work for someone else (or might provide inspiration for someone else to make slight changes that will work), but growing spiritually, ultimately, is our own responsibility.
I would like to use this post as a place to report on the good things that happen in church, since I think we ought to have such a place in the midst of the other discussions we have. So . . . The three speakers in Sac Mtg today all were female: a 12-year-old giving her first SM talk, a young mother who talked for about 25 minutes (“much longer than I was supposed to talk”) and the wife of a former Bishop / just released HPGL (who has three developmentally disabled sons in their 30’s / 40’s who still live with her and her husband). It was a wonderful meeting – seriously one of my favorites in a long time, in a ward where good talks are the norm. The YW is a precocious kid – the oldest of nine kids. She actually said, “Since we have an enormous family, we have been given lots of clothes over the years.” (The fact that her father now is a doctor and our current Bishop, that was hilarious.) Both of the adult women spoke about the trials they have faced in their lives and how they’ve managed to remain grateful – and it was incredibly touching. The last woman mentioned a friend of hers who was well-off but refused to buy a new car specifically so others in the ward who were less well-off wouldn’t feel any pressure to buy a new car also – to “not make any of my brothers and sisters in the Gospel stumble”. (That might have been hard for those in the congregation with new cars to hear – if it hadn’t been said by the woman who said it. Everyone loves her, mostly because she loves everyone first.)
Sunday School was about James, and we only got through Chapter 1 – but I’m OK with that, since we got to talk about it in depth. I don’t always like the way this particular teacher approaches some lessons, but this one was very good.
Our Priesthood lesson was about the Millennium, and I was very wary at the beginning. However, the instructor today was a very humble man who focused on what he thinks the lesson of the Millennium is – to consider what we would love to do with plenty of time to do whatever we want, and begin now to be prepared for that time. I thought it was an excellent way to approach that topic, and it led to a really good discussion. I also was able to say that I think many atheists will make it into the Millennium – which almost gave one good brother (whom I love dearly) a heart attack. We don’t agree on a lot of things, but we always smile and pat each other on the back after we’ve disagreed in front of everyone else. He’s a really good, sincere man.
I know it probably wasn’t the case for all of you, but I had a good day today at church.
Church had a bit more action than we normally see. My wife got released from her calling today. Door to door, it was 3 months from the date of her request to the release and a month from her delivery of a “deadline” at which point she would stop functioning. All on positive terms.
She was just glad it was over since it was her third time in that leadership calling, and didn’t seem to share the same angst I did over my four month release period — which I”m glad about. I personally thought the Ward leaders were responsive enough to her request, as there was communication throughout the period about their progress, or lack thereof. Also, she was simply tired of the calling and as another boon — our family wasn’t stressed to the max like they were in my situation two years ago. She has another lightweight calling…we are both relieved because we can now focus on our family, the cleanliness of our house, and helping my son who is experiencing some difficult times. She will be home on Sunday mornings and not at meetings which were beginning to really frustrate her.
The Bishopric were asking me about my employment situation, the first bit of conversation we’ve had in a couple years — I don’t think it was out of caring, but out of sizing up my stability and perhaps ability to take on a heftier calling now that my wife is no longer busy to the hilt. I’m thankful for the possible heads up. While I’ll consider whatever they want to call me to, I’m already framing some comments together which may well involve the phrase “the pendulum of effort has swung almost entirely to the Church many times in the past, and now is the time for the pendulum to swing almost entirely to my family given our current needs”. Or “I can’t go back to the crazy juggling act I did two years ago now that I’m working on a PhD and a Master’s Degree simultaneously” — Which is true.
And one of my better friends pulled me aside to talk about renting one of my properties with his new bride. I’m happy for him, but he’s marrying someone from his foreign mission who he barely knows, who knows nothing about American culture or if she likes it here, has English as a second language — and they are doing it in the temple. She was obviously very uncertain about whether she even likes it where when I spoke to her, barely speaking the language etcetera, and seeming very ill-at-ease. In my view, he’s taking a huge risk. But I kept my mouth shut. It’s clearly none of my business.
And, when I was HPGL, I set up a system where you sign up for a regular night when you go out with the missionaries each month — the third Sunday, the second Tuesday, whatever fits your schedule — like clockwork every month to spare the overhead of scheduling the split. Well, after two years of getting a pass, they approached me to go out as part of this system. I signed up, but only as an archetype of who I was. It’s going to be a challenge to go out and bear testimony about how great it is to be a member of the Church when at times, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone given some of my expereinces.
So I will have to deal with it. I may just view myself as a chauffer and leave it at that. Funny how the release of my wife has led to everyone people potentially thinking my time is theirs. At least now I have the assertiveness and boundaries available to prevent any kind of time-abuse from happening on a large scale — something I didn’t have a couple years ago.
And the last half of Sacrament meeting was spent teaching my son about “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, which was a worthwhile use of time given his apparent inability to listen in sacrament meeting. It was a good lesson. Afterwards I showed him how to change the oil in the car, which he loved, and five people asked me if I needed help — thinking my car was broken down when Church let out.
So, this was a better day at Church than usual.
Thanks for sharing, SD. My last 2 weeks of church have been remarkably positive. Sooooo many good families and people have come up to us to say hi and ask how we’re doing.
There are good people in the ward.
One thing we tried differently yesterday was that we went to Gospel Essentials class instead of Gospel Doctrine. It was a refreshing change. A smaller group, and good comments on the subject of prayer.
I felt the spirit. It was nice.
I’ve been pretty negative toward the church as a whole the past year or so. I had tithing settlement (something I struggle with) and I ended up having to go alone. I had a few months tithing to hand in and my wife had written out a pretty large check to make us full payers for the year. Certainly enough to pay off a debt we have right now, which is what I’d have rather done. I was pretty mad the whole way there, muttering about how I hated this BS and really just working myself into a lather over it. But then as much as I wanted to maintain my bad attitude, the bishop was very nice and genuine. I turned in my check and I felt really good leaving the church. I had a much better attitude the rest of the night and this morning about the whole thing. Additionally, something I want to dismiss, but can’t, is that this is the second time I have turned in a big tithing check after a little hiatus and gotten a raise at work within 24 hours. Today I got an 11% raise. It’s kinda freaking me out. Both raises were already overdue, but it is hard to ignore the timing now that it has happened twice.
The rest of church was normal.
A high councilman spoke in church Sunday, so my expectations were low, but he exceeded them, nonetheless. He actually gave a very good talk. I liked that he pointed out that his father served in many capacities in the church and spent many hours in church service, but recently told him (his HC son) that he wished he would have spent less time doing church work and more time with his kids. I liked that. So, I skipped Sunday School and went home to spend some time with two kids who stayed home sick.
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