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Church this week was a refreshing change. Can’t remember a thing from Sac Mtg except that our last loaf of bread was required, meaning we had to go get bread after church on the way home. My SS class was semi-well behaved for a change. The RS lesson was on Final Judgment which I thought would be awful (as was the one on the Millenium), but it was actually really good. The teacher is a convert with less than one year in the church, so I always feel like I need to give more when someone is new like that. Church this week for me was Stake Conference We had a new presidency called so it was mainly testimonies from the outgoing and incoming teams, and a lot of testifying as to the belief that the process is led by God
I was mainly being Dad, looking after the kids why my TBM wife listened.
I skipped SM. Sunday School was pretty uneventful, comments from people were decent and I enjoyed the lesson. I might have been bored, but decided to have fun with looking at how the lesson was designed, and how the teacher prepared it, due to the topic chapters.
The lesson covered 1 & 2 Timothy + Titus, which are some of the most controversial letters in the New Testament, a minefield of problems
😈 The consensus among most Bible scholars is that these are fraudulently attributed to Paul, most especially because they are hardcore on the rules which was so opposite of Paul’s other writings (the ones believed to actually be based on his teachings). These are the letters that talk about women being silent in Church, not teaching or leading men, staying modest with their head covered, blah blah blah.Needless to say, the lesson material delicately jumped all over the place cherry-picking a verse here or there to springboard a discussion. We read only single verses
Priesthood was also decent enough. We’re in the section of the manual about the second coming. I’m not sure if it is good or bad that they bunched basically the same topics together. There’s like 4 or 5 in a row on the temple, then several on the second coming all together. I thought it was interesting how the teacher presented our more contemporary urge to be inclusive of other religions. He pointed out that not everyone will be a member of the LDS Church when Jesus returns in glory, and that nobody is forced to believe a certain way. It’s just that only righteous people with good hearts will survive the “cleansing” destruction before His return. But everyone will see Jesus return and know that he is the Messiah. But people will still belong to different churches.
I had a little fun with the class: I raised my hand and asked “so, could there be any non-Christian religions that survive the second coming?” The teacher kind of blinked a few times and tried to move on, lol. Then another brother in the class (who I enjoy a lot) piped in to try and answer. It started a pretty cool speculation session, and I liked hearing everyone’s attempts at resolving the paradox of freedom of thought vs. Christ coming in glory. The class seemed to want to think of the millennium as free for people to choose, but also had to acknowledge the mythology that Christ will come in glory and power, will rule the Earth in righteousness, and “every knee will bend and tongue confess…”
Well, today we didn’t go. First time in our entire history of a family, we stayed at home. My wife was released from her calling last week, so this week, we went on a bit of a vacation to a hotel to celebrate a family birthday, and when we got back, had no energy for Church. We stayed at home, decorated a Christmas tree, travelled over to a property we owned to inspect it, had some family time. I hate to say it, but I loved it. If it wasnt’ for my children, I can see how my wife and I might just enjoy ourselves on Sundays at home. Church causes a lot of stress in your life…and for the last several years we have both been going to school, etcetera, both working, with a high maintenance child in hand….it was bliss today.
Our Bishop spoke today – about slowing down, doing less and choosing what to do based on what’s best for us as individuals, families, etc. He related that when he attended a training session for Bishops and Stake Presidents, one of the speakers said that members need to “chill out” (in the use of their time and how they judge others). He said Elder Scott mentioned that in his talk and agreed that we really need to chill out as a people. (The Bishop’s talk was titled, “Chill Out”.) My kids liked the fact that he compared it to being aware of a ninja sneaking around stealing our time and having to guard that time intentionally. (He relates to the youth REALLY well.) He talked about how some people want their kids to be able to do everything that is good – and they run themselves ragged in the process and have no time to spend with their kids on their own. He mentioned how some people spend so much time in church-related activities that they neglect themselves, their spouses and/or their children. He talked about how it’s important to create moments that are like slow-mo scenes in movies – where we focus on something intently and let everything around us happen without worrying about it.
Sunday School was OK.
I left after the second hour to take my oldest kids back to college, since they had fraternity commitments that they would have missed if they’d stayed the entire three hours.
Oh, and one of my sons and his girlfriend didn’t get all of their laundry done, so they attended in khakis and a polo shirt (my son) and a fairly short sleeveless dress, with leggings and a jacket covering the torso (his girlfriend). I told them it was better to be there dressed like that than to miss church because of their available clothes.
We were going to attend a different Ward today — just to experience it. But then we both realized that Church is even more uneventful when you are the new people on the block — and only visiting. We decided it would be better to go back to our own Ward, for that reason….an odd change of events since we both agree that our current Ward is perhaps the hardest Ward we ever served within…it shows the need for socialization we have as a family. I also spoke to my father today, a non-member, but very religious — an Evangelical who at many different times tried to persuade me from temple marriage, a mission, and continued involvement in the Mormon Church. For years, we had to avoid the subject of the LDS experience.
Tonight, we talked and I felt like we were both on common ground. I never felt I could talk to my father becauase he was a non-member, and I didn’t want to besmirch my religion to him….but we started talking about the administration of our respective Churches, and this led to the difficulty I ran into when the local leaders acted without compassion a couple years ago. He told me he felt it was inconsiderate, the experience I had.
Interesting, he said all the same things Heber13 and Brian said to me when I first came here. In addition, he told me not to run myself ragged in the Church, to put my family first, and that they will survive without my hyper-involvement as in the past. I told him my tithing concerns, and he encouraged me to pay it!!! But his definition is more like Cwalds — he considers donations to other causes as tithing, and not necessarily to his own Church, although he pays there too. He encouraged me not to let the rules of any religion interfere with my “walk with God” and to put Him first.
I felt a bit like a Judas in sharing some of my concerns, and affirmed my “baptism of the HOly Spirit” experience (as he calls it — he had one too which convinced him there was a God and to be a Christian) which led me to join the LDS Church. He appeared to respect that decision…although he’s always been clear in the past he doesnt’ agree with it.
We have found some common ground. He is like an LDS prospective Elder in his Church. He refuses to be ordained an Elder because his whole life, he has had to put his business first to survive financially and can’t commit to the time they will expect of him as an Elder.
I feel so much more at peace to have learned that my father and I can have common ground, after decades of this LDS experience, knowing full-well my parents are anti-Mormons. Is being a member of a religion like ours WORTH the rifts it causes in your most important family relationships, as it has mine all these decades? As I started expressing some of my concerns — tithing, expectations of oft-times unhealthy levels of service requested — I felt badly that I was “sellling out” to a non-member who has been largely antagonistic in the past, but it was therapeutic to have a common ground discussion with my father, to whom I havent’ been able to speak much to about religion for a long time…..that was the best Sunday experience, this partial reunion.
SilentDawning wrote:Tonight, we talked and I felt like we were both on common ground.
Wow, SD. Thanks for sharing. That was way cool to hear about your bonding moment with your dad. He sounds like a wise man.
SilentDawning wrote:But then we both realized that Church is even more uneventful when you are the new people on the block — and only visiting.
I actually have experienced that differently. Visiting another ward is nice, and for some reason I see new faces and enjoy seeing how they interact with eachother and am usually impressed with families trying to live their religion without knowing anything about them.When strangers introduce themselves to me (as they are trying to find out if I’m an investigator or a new move in), I have often felt a good spirit of friendship seeing strangers talk to me.
I have enjoyed it as a nice break to attending my own ward at times.
SD, very cool experience with your father. Thanks for sharing it. Thanks Brian…it WAS cool. Even if there was an element of an Evangelical perceiving cracks in the armor and encouraging it a bit. But his advice was sound about balance — whatever Church one finds oneself in. Church was largely good yesterday. First, years ago when I was HPGL it disturbed me that we had such a tight-fisted Bishop. My “term in office” was characterized by really trying hard, leading to essentially null results. One success was a kind of social after Church, funded by the Ward. It was immensely successful, creating unity in the Ward and even encouraging some really solid families to move into our Ward — by their own confession in testimony meetings. We got to connect with new people we never saw in other contexts. I felt fulfilled and pleased that something we did was having an impact!!!
Well, our ex-Bishop refused to fund them after third one in two years. And then, he would send money back to SLC unspent. It disturbed me greatly.
Now, two years later, our new Bishop, apparently at the insistence of his two counselors, brought these socials back. They expanded and improved upon the concept, and it was a great success. I got to talk to someone about some meaningful aspects of their life. I got to know a new couple in our Ward, and the place was a-buzz with people. When they announced the social in sacrament meeting, a buzz of excitement rippled through the crowd….it was great. The youth leaders laughed loud and hard when I approached the BBQ and said “Wherever two or more hotdogs are gathered in my name, there will I be also”.
I stirred up slight controversy in Sunday School when they quoted the “hot or cold, or I will spew you out of my mouth” scripture. After everyone supported the “cut or commit” interpretation, the false dichotomy we have dicussed here.
I asked “What are the implications for the less-active people on our rolls, who are lukewarm?” This led to my wife jabbing me in the ribs and telling me to keep my mouth shut (in a kind way). People gave a lot of awkward answers, and then our Bishop said it means we should never be complacent in our callings, going through the motions, and doing a half-hearted job — that we always need to be doing our very best all the time.
I asked “Do we want the lukewarm people here???”. Uncomfortable silence, and then an answer from the teacher that yes, we want the lukewarm people, and that by serving in a lukewarm capacity, we often segway into being hot about the gospel again. That was enough.
And HP group was L. Tom Perry’s talk about the Internet…from October 2011 Conference — how our attitude toward posting online should be should be the same as the comments we make at a temple open house. Well, if that’s a commandment I guess I’m off to the lowest kingdom of the Telestial world….as are many of us, even on TBM sites.
My feeling was that the Church is in an awkward bind when it comes to the Internet. I will leave it at that for now. It’s good that they get a ton of honest feedback though. A ton of it, honestly given. Hopefully it will lead to improvement.
And last of all, my son and I left the last 20 minutes of sacrament meeting as usual, and had a meaningful talk in a room. I taught him about internet use and things to avoid. We discussed a father-son trip to an amusement park and put it on a calendar, and I comforted him about his chronic illness. This is working — he sat with his buttocks on the pew the whole time leading up to our exodus. and didn’t fall asleep on the floor as he was prone to do in a rebellious way. So, he is learning better behavior at Church — and he also got himself dressed properly without any intervention on my part — after years of trying.
All in all, a good day at Church!!!!
It was a mixed bag for me yesterday – and I think that’s kind of important, since it shows even a great ward like mine isn’t roses and sunshine all the time. F&T Meeting was OK – but there were only 10 minutes left when the fourth person ended – and that was me – and my testimony lasted about one minute (focused on how different my testimony is than many other people’s and how grateful I am that the Gospel and the Atonement are expansive enough for those of us in the ward who see things differently to worship together anyway) in an attempt to stop the run of testimony-talks that each had lasted for about 10 minutes. The central messages of the talks (oops, testimonies) were good, and the people who spoke are wonderful, caring, good people, but three people in almost 30 minutes?? *sigh*
I had to go to Best Buy during the second hour to pick up my oldest daughter’s computer, which had been fixed from a nasty virus. We only get into town twice a week, and there wasn’t another good option – since my next daughter had a school concert that started early enough that we left the third hour five minutes early to get back home and allow her some time to eat lunch. Therefore, I missed almost all of Sunday School – which my wife said was excellent, and in which I did get to make the point that “we love him, because he first loved us” has implications about how we see and treat those among us who are different.
I kind of gave a summary of the Priesthood lesson on another thread. It was a bit awkward at times but good overall – and I got to mention my disappointment with the focus of most ward activities I’ve seen in the Church.
My daughter’s concert was good – and the bands are MUCH better this year than they were when we first moved to our new town. The current teacher has been there two years, and she has made a HUGE difference already.
All in all, it was a good Sunday, but it would have been easy to see it as a bad one if I’d chosen to look at the empty half of the glass.
Thanks for sharing, Ray. That meant a lot. My day was…eh…so-so. My daughter bore a beautiful testimony that brought tears to my eyes. Several other kids bore testimonies that didn’t mean much to me…but I assumed their parents were as touched as I was about my daughter bearing her soul about her experience witnessing a drunk driving car accident and the things it made her think about fragile life and life choices. I was proud of her.
Sunday school was interesting because several people shared their experiences of how talking to pastors and friends of other religions, how deeply touched they were that others in other faiths have spiritual experiences and are strong spiritually. I appreciated people in the ward recognizing that. Of course, the teacher had to wrap it up with a comment about “Sure they have the light of Christ, we just have the Spirit stronger.”
🙄 Why do people have to say that kind of thing?3rd Hour was a waste…I’m glad I had a good book.
Mixed bag. Such is life.
I just want to point out that in Sacrament meeting there was a huge blight on the whole experience that happened, but I left it out of my report in an effort to be positive. Hopefully I haven’t ruined it now that I have confessed!!! SilentDawning wrote:I just want to point out that in Sacrament meeting there was a huge blight on the whole experience that happened, but I left it out of my report in an effort to be positive. Hopefully I haven’t ruined it now that I have confessed!!!
Didn’t ruin it, SD…made it more real and honest. It is what it is. Its good to be positive…but not at the expense of burying things and getting spiritual ulcers. It sounds like yours was a mixed bag, like mine and Ray’s…yes? Welcome to the land of “Not all roses and peaches, but OK nonetheless”.:wave: Heber13 wrote:SilentDawning wrote:I just want to point out that in Sacrament meeting there was a huge blight on the whole experience that happened, but I left it out of my report in an effort to be positive. Hopefully I haven’t ruined it now that I have confessed!!!
Didn’t ruin it, SD…made it more real and honest. It is what it is. Its good to be positive…but not at the expense of burying things and getting spiritual ulcers. It sounds like yours was a mixed bag, like mine and Ray’s…yes? Welcome to the land of “Not all roses and peaches, but OK nonetheless”.:wave: It was the reading of the tithing settlement letter that got my back up…and the flood of thoughts I’ve had about tithing lately…but I let it pass, and enjoyed the rest of it. We also had a conference talk by L. Tom Perry about Internet participation which may or may not have been directed at myself. I plan to post something on it for discussion at some point, as I found it interesting.
Ahhh…L.Tom Perry’s talk…Love Casteh Out Fear…I thought it was a great talk.
Quote:Today’s “manner of conversation” seems to involve the Internet more and more. We encourage people, young and old, to use the Internet and the social media to reach out and share their religious beliefs.
As you utilize the Internet, you may come across ongoing conversations about the Church. When directed by the Spirit, do not hesitate to add your voice to these conversations.
I look forward to your post on that.
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