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Today was another mixed bag. I brought levity to HP Group which actually was appreciated, I think. It was on Exhaltation, and I had more questions I wanted to ask in Socratic form to make them think, but held my tongue. Sunday school was another Zebra lesson I call it — all black and white. I have been trying to be more positive lately, so when the teacher asked everyone to list what is going on in the world today, everyone came out with negatives “Countries are suffering from financial collapse, fighting in the middle east, the economy is terrible, we are in debt, morality a problem”. I put up my hand to say “A higher percentage og Americans have access to technology, food, healthcare, education and domestic peace than ever before in the history of the earth” or something like that but the teacher didnt’ call on me…understandably as it was a big class.
Anyway, it went downhill from there, and I started questioniong if that meeting was what I needed to feel uplifted, so I sat out in the hall and read The Valley of Fear by Arthur Conan Doyle. The good thing about aging is that you can read a novel you read 10 years ago and still not remember the ending.
Sacrament meeting — it was good. A man got up and told the intimate details of his relationship with his wife which was interesting, as it was all about housework conflicts, but the roles were reversed than in my family. His wife values order, and he doesn’t. I felt it was good for my wife and kids to hear his story about how domestic issues cause tension and how it is resolved by serving the other person. He made the realization that in his marriage, having charity for his wife means picking up after himself. Amazing how fast he caught on after four months of marriage!!!
And then we stayed the whole sacrament meeting to hear our ex-Bishop from another WArd speak on forgiveness. He was entertaining as usual and inspiring, and it was something I needed to hear. My wife jabbed me regularly every time he said something I need to hear — since learning to forgive is not my strong suit and is part of my Church-angst. At the same time, I remembered being a counselor to himin his Bishopric, and how it was there I learned I had little interest in learning the bureaucracy of church governance. And I’m good with that now. Don’t care if I ever have to figure otu the process of how to advance a young man in the priesthood — others who get a kick out of that stuff can do it, and I’m find with it.
And my son sat through the ENTIRE meeting this time.
Overall, another mixed bag but worthwhile.
Sacrament meeting was good, but I heard most of it from the foyer – where I was sitting with my daughter who had a sore throat and needed lots of water. There were really adorable little kids and an investigator sitting next to us (on the chair next to the coach where we were). I missed a bit of the talks off and on, but it was tiny kids – so I couldn’t be upset. We have a youth orchestra in our ward (initiated by our Bishop, who is an amazing musician), and they played the prelude music.
The first speaker was an older man who talked about journals and personal histories but made it interesting. It wasn’t a great talk by any stretch, but it was good. The High Councilor was a man I really like – one of probably three to whom I felt particularly close when I served with him. His presentation skills are average, but his message was really good.
He mentioned Sister Hinckley’s statement that too many members know just enough about the Atonement to feel guilty and not enough to feel saved and redeemed and loved for who they are. He then talked about how receiving God’s image in our countenance is a long process of growth that includes lots of failure and weakness along the way – that God’s love isn’t based on what we’ve done in the past or are doing in the present but the person he knows he can make us in the future.
He’s a good, humble, understanding man – and it came through in his talk.
I thought of lots of you here when it was announced that all tithing settlement appointments for next Sunday would have to be rescheduled due to a conflict in the Bishop’s schedule. We had been scheduled for then, and we were going to have to reschedule it anyway due to another family conflict. I had told my wife we could talk with the Bishop informally and tell him our status without a sit-down meeting, but she wasn’t totally comfortable with that. I talked with him in the hallway after Sacrament Meeting, and, before I could do more than mention our cancelled appointment, he said we could let him know then and he would record whatever we told him.
When he walked away, I grinned at my wife —- and she punched me. Good times.
Sunday School was OK, but it was supposed to cover the book of Revelation (seriously?? Revelation in one week??
:wtf: ) We got through the first 5 chapters, but we did talk about how symbols work for some people and are harder for others to understand. One person said that we can understand Revelation and other difficult scriptures if we pray with enough sincerity, but one of the men I really like (a former military chaplain) gently pointed out later that people just learn differently – and some people really have a hard time with symbolism.We left after the 2nd hour to make it home in time for a school concert in which our third daughter was involved. It was really good, and she was able to sing despite her throat problems. My wife and I are leaving in about 30 minutes to attend our oldest son’s student-directed one-act play. He has one of the major roles. It’s not appropriate for our children, so we get to make a date out of it – and it’s free, since I am an employee of the college.
:clap: I had a good day at church. Then I screwed it up. Our ward had the Christmas program today. Lots of music & the primary children participated.
They’re always good.
The Sunday school lesson was on Revelations. Good discussion.
I talked with old friends I hadn’t seen in awhile.
Then came PH. Opening exercises were ok. They didn’t ask me to introduce myself again. Always good.
I’ve only been in the ward 30+ years. It tells you how often I come to Church.
Then we broke off for the lesson & I ran into the Stake President.
He introduced himself & wanted to know if I was visiting. I told him no. “I’m the inactive member of the ward”.
He asked me what brought me back? (I can’t keep my mouth shut.) I said I didn’t have a clue. Probably not the best thing to say.
I’m beginning to realize that you are either in it 110% or you’re an outcast.
I doubt if I can commit to the 110% level again. There is no such thing as being an impartial observer in this church.
Or, getting into activity slowly & gradually increasing as you feel comfortable.
I even went to the Bishop’s office to get a tithing envelop. No envelopes.
God’s trying to tell me something. This Sunday’s free.
Am I being too dramatic?
Mike from Milton.
Mike wrote:I’m beginning to realize that you are either in it 110% or you’re an outcast.
I doubt if I can commit to the 110% level again. There is no such thing as being an impartial observer in this church.
Or, getting into activity slowly & gradually increasing as you feel comfortable.
You are an outcast to certain people — the judgmental ones who haven’t been kicked around by life enough to have a broader perspective. I interface with such people’s TRUE feelings on another TBM discussion forum where I have slightly fewer posts than I do here, although I’ve been on that site about a year or two longer than here. I’m amazed and flabbergasted at the uber-judgmental, harsh statements these supposedly straight-arrow Mormons make. Many are straight-arrow about the commandments and have little compassion or charity toward others who struggle with testimony or commitment — always choosing the “one size fits all” mentality tha is preached over the pulpit.
Then, there are the enlightened ones who seek balance. I didn’t know such balance could exist until I came here…so, if I was you — enjoy the low expectations which come with being an outcast. Someone once postulated that us outcasts are probably happier than the 110% people. I know I am happier now that I have put the Church in the right place in my life, rather than in the forefront at the sacrifice of my emotional and even financial health. This is partly because there is far less frustration at being accountable for changing the souls of men when ultimately, it’s their choice whether they live the gospel.
I would enjoy the low expectations until such time you really want to give 110% at Church. Give it in your personal life to developing your character and kindness an charity toward others, give what you can to the Church….not more.
Mike, pretend like you’re an investigator. No expectations, and everyone’s happy to see you there – even if you’ve been attending for years without ever joining. :thumbup: Well, today my lesson went well, and my son made it through Sacrament without being disruptive, without a break (he slept, but OK, I’ll take it). A member of our former SP spoke. That was a hard one. He caught me on the way up to the stand with a handshake and a “good to see you”, but my heart hasn’t healed yet since he was the BKP-style, hardliner that caused me angst a couple years ago. My wife said she saw it in my eyes, but she knows the history and he probably isn’t even aware of my feelings. I was cordial as usual, but I had a hard time getting his message when he spoke — the old “people don’t care how much you know, unless they know how much you care” applied here.
And they released our HPGL and called a former Bishop to the calling. I felt for the ex-Bishop. He did not look very thrilled at the new call. He is a worn out man, wife has a terminal illness, and he’s just plain tired. And he was part of the hardship I experienced as HPGL as he was a very temporal Bishop, stuck on bureaucracy. I thought to myself “I’m going to have to walk up to him and
swearin conversation so I don’t get called as an assistant!!!” (I would never do that, but the thought crossed my mind). Or perhaps, I could just share my true divergent thoughts…or share my posts here on StayLDS… There was more but I have to go now…
Mixed bag today, but more positive than negative: Good Fast and Testimony meeting – One of the women in the ward read a testimony her husband had written from jail and given to the missionaries “to keep me from reading it before this meeting”. It was a wonderful testimony. Someone else read Isaiah 61:1 and testified that Christ was sent to serve the broken-hearted. He mentioned that F&T meetings sometimes can be hard for those people, since everyone tends to stand up and express thanks for blessings, and those who aren’t feeling blessed at the moment can feel even worse when they hear everyone else list their blessings – so it’s important to remember that he served and died for those who are struggling in any way.
Pretty good Sunday School – Not much in the way of deep and profound insights, but nothing that made me cringe and bite off my tongue. There were a couple of comments that showed a pretty shallow understanding of the context, like seeming to equate Old Testament prophets with modern prophets (“Laman and Lemuel should have accepted Lehi’s visions, because he was a prophet.”) – but nothing was so out-there that I felt compelled to correct it.
Lively HPG lesson – This one probably was the most animated arguments in which I’ve participated at church in a long time. I started it
😳 , when I mentioned how much I love Pres. GA Smith’s “personal creed” to not force others to accept his ideals but to love them regardless. I used an example of how we would react initially and emotionally if a drunk or a prostitute or a gay couple (or anyone else whose actions we might not like) walked into Sacrament Meeting during the administration of the sacrament. Would we react with disgust and want them to leave, or would be be happy they were there, stand up and embrace them and ask them to sit with us? (This is one time when I didn’t try to couch my words in any way and just said something bluntly, because I wanted that discussion to occur.)There were a handful of brethren who reacted negatively to my comment, and the group ended up hashing it out for about 15 minutes – but I was glad to see some people respond quite forcefully in agreement with what I had said, especially a couple who surprised me with their comments (not because I thought they disagreed, but because they generally stay quiet and don’t comment). I was OK with it in the end, even with those who still were saying things with which I disagreed, mostly because I like them, know they are good people at heart and understand them well enough to know why they think the way they do – and because I knew I was the one who started it, knowing full well where it might go.
I apologized to one man, in particular, after the meeting for “getting emotional” – and he accepted it without any problem. He knows we see things differently, and I know he comments sometimes just to provide a different perspective than mine. I can’t be mad at him for that when he’s doing exactly what I’m doing.
So, mixed bag, but more good than bad. I really do love my ward, but it’s not all peaches and cream all the time.
Oh, and a very, very humble man who was called as a counselor in the Bishopric a couple of months ago conducted Sacrament Meeting for the first time today. (I have had some good Home Teachers in my life, but he probably is the best.) He obviously was nervous, and he was self-depreciating in his testimony at the beginning of the meeting, but it was really cool to listen to him and know how utterly shocked he was when he was asked to serve in that calling and how wonderful it will be to have him serving there. Old-Timer wrote:Pretty good Sunday School – Not much in the way of deep and profound insights, but nothing that made me cringe and bite off my tongue. There were a couple of comments that showed a pretty shallow understanding of the context, like seeming to equate Old Testament prophets with modern prophets (“Laman and Lemuel should have accepted Lehi’s visions, because he was a prophet.”) – but nothing was so out-there that I felt compelled to correct it.
my SS was excruciatingly painful. I thought by missing SS last week I’d dodge the ‘keystone’ lesson, but it’s what the teacher started with. Starting with Joseph Smith, then to Orson Pratt, and onto ETB, every possible paint-yourself-into-the-corner “The book of mormon must be completely true or it’s the biggest fraud in history” comment was quoted. It’s completely painful to hear this — I cringe every time. I guess the harder the church hammers in that message, then more and more people will opt for the latter part of the dualism… kind of sad, really.
I decided I wanted to skip and spend time as a family, took my kids to a park, my daughter slipped and fell on the ice, landed on her elbow and we spent the afternoon in the urgent care getting x-rays. 😥 I wish I had gone to church (oh well). The good thing is…there is always next week!
You know, it’s good to read about experiences like that, Heber – if only to be reminded that not all skipping church times are wonderful and that there must be balance in the force. :ugeek: I went to Church yesterday not really wanting to be there. I was in the middle of a re-organization of my desk and felt interrupted. I normally skip priesthood opening exercises because that’s where all the moving and repetitive work is asked for, and I simply don’t enjoy it….I waited in the HP meeting room. Well, no one came, so I sat there and meditated…and continued all the way through Sunday School. A member of the Bishopric came in and asked me what I was doing and I explained there must’ve been a combined meeting adn I missed it and decided just to sit and think. Sacrament meeting…well, it was a hard one. I found a way to keep myself occupied, and then left a bit early because my son started having a diabetic low and was acting strangely. Good thing, my daughter actually listens to the adults now. And everyone just leaves me alone at Church. Used to bug me but now I’m quite comfortable with it.
Old-Timer wrote:You know, it’s good to read about experiences like that, Heber – if only to be reminded that not all skipping church times are wonderful and that there must be balance in the force.
:ugeek:
Exactly, Ray. Middle-way, my friend, middle-way.Today was a bit of a mixed bag, but the good definitely outweighed the bad. Sacrament Meeting was a missionary farewell (technically, the young man who spoke last is leaving on a mission next week). The two youth speakers spoke about testimony and personal revelation, and, while they were “youthful perspectives”, they were really good talks considering their ages. The soon-to-be-missionary is a great kid, and his sense of humor is awesome. (For example, he mentioned Ammon going up to King Lamoni and saying, “Yo, king, I just want to serve you.” He also quoted a line from a really bad rap song he wrote while he was at BYU about the young ladies wanting to date RM’s – and laughed at how bad it was.) He’s going to my mission (Sapporo, Japan), and I told him after the meeting ended that the best advice I could give him would be to be himself – to not let anything make him change his basic personality – that he was being called to that mission because at least one person needed HIM and his unique personality and sense of humor, not some other generic missionary. I also told him to avoid using the Book of Mormon as a proof text but to ask the people he was teaching to read it straight through from cover to cover.
His talk ended about 10 minutes early, even though it was 20 minutes, so our Bishop shared a few things to close the meeting. He’s a good man, and it was a good message.
Sunday School was pretty good. I like our teacher, even though we disagree about some things. He’s a good man and a good teacher, and this lesson was pretty straight-forward. The only semi-awkward time was when Laman and Lemuel were getting dissed a bit by some people. I piped up and said that when I read accounts like Nephi ripping on his brothers, the only way I can keep from piling on (the only way I can “liken it unto myself” in a positive way) is to think about how I would react if someone said something like that to me. I said it could be a Bishop or an anti-Mormon evangelical friend. It doesn’t really matter to me. What matters is how I react. Would I react like Laman and Lemuel and deny it all – or would I stop and really think about what was being said to see if any of it was true? I said I’m afraid I might react like they did, and that it’s good to think about that once in a while to avoid smugness and pride.
I got some nods, but I also got some head shaking – and one lady immediately said, “but they actually had seen an angel and felt the power of the Lord. It’s not the same thing.” Oh, well. Others understood what I was saying, I think – and that’s all I hoped when I made my comment.
The 3rd hour was a really mixed bag. It was about the family (from CHI 2). It didn’t stray at all into “threats to the family” that might have gotten really distasteful, and our bishop, as I said, really is a good, loving, kind man who tried hard to be as inclusive as he could (and generally succeeded), but I know at least one faithful sister who is older and single left before it started to go home and spend time with her father – since, in her own words, “If it’s going to be about parenting, it’s not going to help me in the slightest.”
She was right, generally speaking, and there were a few moments that caused me some heartburn, but I really liked the fact that our Bishop said unmistakably that: 1) Family Home Evening is decided by each person / couple / family – that church leaders have NO say in that decision; 2) Husbands and wives are equal partners and, while the Proclamation to the World lists primary roles, couples are to help each other in those roles in whatever way they feel is directed by God.
We had a “linger longer” after church, but I missed it. I had to look at a car we might buy before I leave for my new job. My family enjoyed it, though. (My oldest three kids had to leave before the rest of us for college stuff, so they rushed through the eating and were gone by the time I got back.)
I teach the 12-15 YO SS class (they merged the 2 ages in our ward, so I chose to teach the BOM manual this year). We are one lesson behind, on Nephi’s vision of the destruction of his people, the future of the gentiles, and so on. There was an interesting quote in there about what was referenced by the Great and Abominable Church. The quote was from Mormon Doctrine, 2nd edition. I was pleased that almost all the kids in the class got the question right – that this doesn’t refer so much to a church as people who put their hearts on the wrong things that erode spirituality and mock those who are humble. But one student was still in 1st edition territory, not saying it was the Catholic church, but all churches other than our own! I had to point out that there were plenty of people in our church who were like the description and plenty of good an humble people from other faiths or no faith at all. Baby steps. I still have to wonder how people can hang onto this junk after so long! I also got to point out that 1 Ne 13 clearly points out that we are not Biblical literalists and why. I made sure to drive that point home, pointing out that there are some other churches that feel very differently about this, but we believe the Bible is imperfect.
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