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cwald: best church service ever. Kind of redefines the word “service” that is so misused when it refers to “meetings”. Who cares what the guy thinks. I think that his cogdis may result in a bit of enlightenment.
Lifting an IPA to you!
Cheers!
Here’s back at you Way…are you home yet, or are you still hanging out in the Morcor? Did you ever meet up with any NOMs? Thanks Mercy and Mike.
cwald wrote:Here’s back at you Way…are you home yet, or are you still hanging out in the Morcor? Did you ever meet up with any NOMs?
returning Monday. did not meet up…had too many family things to do here. trust me: glad to be going back into the telestial mission field.110 miles from Bend en route between Boise and Medford? Man you are in the middle of nowhere…
wayfarer wrote:cwald wrote:Here’s back at you Way…are you home yet, or are you still hanging out in the Morcor? Did you ever meet up with any NOMs?
returning Monday. did not meet up…had too many family things to do here. trust me: glad to be going back into the telestial mission field.110 miles from Bend en route between Boise and Medford? Man you are in the middle of nowhere…
If you want to really understand just how far from nowhere I am, google earth Silver Lake Oregon, or even better, google earth N 43.12260 W 120.84492.
So … will you be taking the discussions? Enquiring minds want to know. Great story, BTW.
doug wrote:So … will you be taking the discussions? Enquiring minds want to know.
Great story, BTW.
You’re funny Doug.
🙂 Share away. Thanks, I absolutely will. I haven’t heard a story that good for sharing in a long, long time.
I’m speaking in Sac Mtg next Sunday about “the creation” (yeah, seriously – but I’m going to do my best to make it worship-focused – and I’m going to start with an explicit disclaimer that I don’t give a large rodent’s hindquarters about the “how” of the creation). I won’t find a way to work it into that talk, but I’ll be looking for the right class lesson.
Old-Timer wrote:Share away.
Thanks, I absolutely will. I haven’t heard a story that good for sharing in a long, long time.
I’m speaking in Sac Mtg next Sunday about “the creation” (yeah, seriously – but I’m going to do my best to make it worship-focused – and I’m going to start with an explicit disclaimer that I don’t give a large rodent’s hindquarters about the “how” of the creation). I won’t find a way to work it into that talk, but I’ll be looking for the right class lesson.
—derail—-
Ray, You could use the creation of the world and its preparation to become the habitation for man as a metaphor for how God creates order from the chaos in each of our lives as we progressively prepared to become His holy habitation.
Thanks, m&g. That’s much more the line of thinking I’m going to pursue, but I hadn’t put it in those terms. I definitely am going to use it – and maybe make the point that we can order our lives so rigidly that we don’t allow God to do some divine renovating – to be the master builder he is and wants to be. I had an interesting experience in Sacrament Meeting today. The first speaker talked about repentance – and, as strongly as feel about how we tend to present only a small, simplistic view of repentance in the Church, I ended up enjoying the talk, mostly. The speaker had a good sense of humor, was self-deprecating and used personal experiences of when he’d screwed up to illustrate his points. “Doctrinally” I had a few issues that could have been bigger – but his approach and attitude overcame those issues.
The second speaker (the High Councilor) talked about the Law of Chastity – and my experience with the first talk was magnified throughout the second talk. There were more issues for me, and those issues were deeper for me, but, in the end, I was impressed by something that hit me hard – and I mean really, truly HARD:
He obviously was sincere – and trying his best to be compassionate and understanding and empathetic. His delivery method and attitude was humble, even as probably 2/3 of his talk was content I never would have chosen for a talk about that topic – and 1/3 of it I couldn’t have said over the pulpit if I’d tried (like talking about pornographic imagery – even not in explicit terms – since I believe that only brings such images into the minds of those who need help the most without actually helping them in any way).
I don’t know either speaker – have never talked at length with either of them. All I had was their words – and their presentation of those words – and, in the end,
what I FELT about them outweighed what they actually said. I felt like they were good, sincere people doing the best they could to help others – so the fact that I believed some of what they said wasn’t helpful in the slightest didn’t mean as much as that impression. I have felt that previously, and it’s not a new intellectual epiphany for me, but it hit me in a way today that was new and enlightening.
Today was one of the best overall days at church for me in a long time: 1) Sacrament Meeting was the Young Women in the ward (seven of them) and two leaders speaking about the YW values and Girls’ Camp. There was a ton of ward business (just about the entire Relief Society was released), so the Bishop started the meeting by saying that he was pretty sure Sacrament Meeting would run longer than normal but that he thought it was important to let it last as long as it needed to last to hear from the Young Women.
The actual talks were fairly short (2-5 minutes each), but they were simple, personal and wonderful. My two teenage daughters spoke. In the talk about individual worth, my youngest daughter mentioned that God told Moses to tell the Israelites that “I AM” was sending Moses to them – and then she said, essentially,
Quote:“God told Moses that God had individual worth, so if someone asks me who I am, I can say,
‘I am me – and that’s enough.’“ I love music, and the song they sang was beautiful.
2) I was asked last-minute a couple of weeks ago to teach the Gospel Principles class for a couple who are attending every other week right now. They were in church again today, so I got to teach about God’s family and his plan for us. It was the perfect topic for them today, for reasons I don’t need to share here. It literally was exactly what they needed, and it was neat to see it all come together for them.
3) I taught the HPG lesson on receiving revelation and inspiration, and it was a good experience. We talked about the difference between revelation and inspiration, and I shared an experience I had years ago with pure revelation. We talked about some experiences members in the room had experienced that were less obvious but still powerful. We talked about how we often only know in hindsight whether or not an impression truly was revelation, inspiration or just an incorrect idea of our own. We focused on not worrying about what thoughts, impressions, ideas, etc. were revelation, inspiration or just our own feelings but simply trying to do good whenever we felt something telling us to do good. It was a good discussion, and I enjoyed being able to lead it.
4) My wife was called and set apart as the YW Secretary, and she is thrilled. She loved working with the YM in one of our previous wards, and our girls might have been more excited than my wife.
mercyngrace wrote:Ray, You could use the creation of the world and its preparation to become the habitation for man as a metaphor for how God creates order from the chaos in each of our lives as we progressively prepared to become His holy habitation.
Although this lesson may well have passed, I like this kind of thinking as it applies to teaching in the church. The joy of scriptures which are not clearly literal or symbolic, and laden with ambiguity is you can take them in any direction you want. I had a similar thought….use the creation of the world as a metaphor for achieving a vision — a vision of any kind. Talk about how what you are accomplishing comes to life, from a big picture vision, to nailing the larger issues, to eventually refining and refining until the vision is achieved. Draw in goal-setting literature, ideas on persistence, order, not running faster than you have strength and the need for rest.
Use it as a vehicle for any message you wish to share that can be reasonably attached to it.
Today was Ward Conference, and I just want to pass on something a member of the Stake Presidency said in the combined RS/MPH meeting (my summary, since I didn’t take notes): Quote:All of us have trials we face that are unique and difficult. Even though we tend to put them all way up here (lifting his hand above his head) on a pedestal, even the Prophet and apostles have trials and still are learning and growing. They aren’t perfect; they make mistakes; just like us, they are trying to be more like God and learn from the things they suffer.
There were some things said at various points today that made me smile in exasperation a bit, but there were good messages, as well – and I really like that someone in a position of “authority” said explicitly that, “just like us”, the prophets and apostles make mistakes.
Today in EQ, we discussed GAS CH 18: “Stay On the Lord’s Side of the Line”. I was taken aback about how much my personal beliefs have changed when I heard the first quote: Quote:“There is a line of demarcation well defined between the Lord’s territory and the devil’s territory. If you will stay on the Lord’s side of the line you will be under his influence and will have no desire to do wrong; but if you cross to the devil’s side of that line one inch you are in the tempter’s power and if he is successful, you will not be able to think or even reason properly because you will have lost the Spirit of the Lord.”
I don’t believe it’s so well-defined anymore. And I’m not sure how much I believe in the devil, either. It was a little aggravating to hear everyone jump on the bandwagon to defend the statement. I wonder if maybe the concept of a specific line separating the two territories is a like “training wheels” that eventually must come off if we are to develop our full potential as agents unto ourselves. That eventually, we must rely on the Spirit, our past experiences, our wisdom, and our personal judgment in each situation. Life certainly is not as black and white as this quote seems to suggest…
Anyway, I got a good word in today. When one of the brethren trotted out the party line about sustaining our leaders = uncritically obeying their every word, I challenged it by stating that a) we have the right and the obligation to find our for ourselves what is a true commandment and what is not; b) our leaders are fallible men just like us; and c) sustaining sometimes means helping our leaders to know when they’ve made a mistake. It seems to go over pretty well…
turinturambar wrote:Today in EQ, we discussed GAS CH 18: “Stay On the Lord’s Side of the Line”. I was taken aback about how much my personal beliefs have changed when I heard the first quote:
Quote:“There is a line of demarcation well defined between the Lord’s territory and the devil’s territory. If you will stay on the Lord’s side of the line you will be under his influence and will have no desire to do wrong; but if you cross to the devil’s side of that line one inch you are in the tempter’s power and if he is successful, you will not be able to think or even reason properly because you will have lost the Spirit of the Lord.”
…Life certainly is not as black and white as this quote seems to suggest…
The Didache, an early Christian text that should be in the New Testament, states there are two Ways: the Way of Life, and the Way of death. The Way of Life is to love god, love neighbor, and the golden rule. the Way of death is all about forcing, coercing, etc. In Nephi , there are two churches: same concept. the dividing line isn’t between LDS and everyone else… While i don’t like dualisms, the point is that the true and false church is distributed among all churches, including the LDS church. when we undertake to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise, control, dominion, or compulsion over people, we are on the devil’s side (symbolically) and following his plan.A few years ago, I looked in the eyes of a well known apostle who has done serious harm to the church and its members, and i saw no life, no spirit, and no love whatsoever. I was blessed by a catholic priest as i could not take comunion, and i saw nothing but life, spirit, and love. i see that love, life, and spirit in many people in the LDS church as well–but absolutely not that apostle.
turinturambar wrote:Anyway, I got a good word in today. When one of the brethren trotted out the party line about sustaining our leaders = uncritically obeying their every word, I challenged it by stating that a) we have the right and the obligation to find our for ourselves what is a true commandment and what is not; b) our leaders are fallible men just like us; and c) sustaining sometimes means helping our leaders to know when they’ve made a mistake. It seems to go over pretty well…
good for you!!! hearing that gives me hope.
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