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Well I am old enough to remember when locals were ordained to the office of a “Seventy”. I am not sure at the time that being a Seventy was considered a promotion as many really don’t like being a missionary. Given that today being ordained a HP doesn’t mean much as far as meeting separately or much of anything else – I think it is going to become a bit less of an issue and only those that are hung up on themselves will even point it out.
I know that one office in the PH is not above another, at least in theory, but that’s not how our brains are wired. If one office in the PH requires a special calling or only special concessions are given for people to receive the office then it will be perceived as being above other offices. The quotes in this post will come from Christofferson’s general conference talk on the subject.
Quote:Years ago, President Boyd K. Packer observed that “the priesthood is greater than any of its offices. … The priesthood is not divisible. An elder holds as much priesthood as an Apostle. (See D&C 20:38.) When a man [has the priesthood conferred upon him], he receives all of it. However, there are offices within the priesthood—divisions of authority and responsibility. … Sometimes one office is spoken of as being ‘higher than’ or ‘lower than’ another office. Rather than ‘higher’ or ‘lower,’ offices in the Melchizedek Priesthood represent different areas of service.” Brethren, I devoutly hope that we will no longer speak in terms of being “advanced” to another office in the Melchizedek Priesthood.
There are divisions of responsibility and authority in callings, yet we don’t invent hundreds of PH offices to delineate the division of responsibilities, we just accept that different callings require different responsibilities. Take the calling of EQP as an example. They don’t get ordained to some special office in the PH in order to function in the calling, but the calling receives keys. So, why can’t everyone be Elder, have the same office in the PH, and hold callings like SP, BP, apostle, etc. with that same understanding? That the
callingindicates the authority, keys, etc., not the office in the PH. I guess this is the corner scriptures in the D&C painted us into. I would also like to point out that no one stands at attention when an elder walks into the room but when an apostle walks into the room… I’m not lobbying for people to stand more, I’m just saying that there are cultural differences in how we perceive people with certain PH offices.
On the idea that people are not “advanced” to another office in the MP.
Quote:Does this adjustment in quorum structure change the priesthood office held by quorum members? No, this action does not rescind any priesthood office to which any quorum member may have been ordained in the past. As you know, a man may be ordained to different priesthood offices over his lifetime, and he does not lose or forfeit any prior ordination when he receives a new one.
I know we don’t frame it this way but not losing any ground gained in the past… that sounds like an advancement. What if people were ordained to the office of HP long enough to serve as a SP, BP, etc. then went back to the office of elder once their tour of duty was up? If being appointed to the office of HP wasn’t an advancement then returning to the office of elder is not a demotion. In short, if there is nothing wrong with moving back to the office of elder then being appointed a HP isn’t an advancement. If there is something wrong with moving back to the office of elder then it was an advancement. I’m just saying the language doesn’t stack up well for me. People don’t rescind an office once it is obtained… but it’s not a progression.
:crazy: Quote:Elders will continue to be ordained high priests when they are called to a stake presidency, high council, or bishopric—or at other times as determined by the stake president through prayerful consideration and inspiration. When their terms of service in a stake presidency, high council, or bishopric are completed, high priests will rejoin the elders quorum in their ward.
He says something interesting here, “or at other times as determined by the stake president through prayerful consideration and inspiration.” That sounds like the non-social promotion model in my previous post. I wonder how frequently that bylaw will be exercised.
The next post (bite sized pieces) will be on why I think the issue will be mitigated when compared to past practices but before that:
Matthew 23:1-12 comes to mind. The condensed version: But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. In other words, Jesus preached against a preoccupation with advancement through the ranks and using… offices in the PH to rank ourselves. This issue runs deep. I think it’s about more than trying to be praised of men, I think it’s mostly about feeling accepted by your community. That guy made HP at 32 years old, I’m 62 and an elder, my community doesn’t value me as much vs. I want to be HP so I can be seen of man. Both touch on pride.
LH already touched on one of my points on why I think the problem will be mitigated, in much less words too. A year ago it was common practice (at least in my area) to see:
“All the HP stand up. We propose that Brother ______ be called to serve as ______, all those in favor…”
“All the elders stand up. We propose that Brother ______ be called to serve as ______, all those in favor…”
HPs go off to that room, elders go off to this other room. There were constant and clear practices that reminded everyone which PH office people hold. Under the current model I don’t expect leaders to ask only the HPs to stand to sanction some action and we won’t be separating into quorums so the only way people would know is if someone volunteered the information or someone asked.
I can see it as becoming a more personal struggle for the people in the transitional generation. HP is an even more exclusive club now. When I was orthodox I also had scrupulosity and I do believe that I would have set a goal of making HP at some point during my life. I would probably view attaining the goal as god’s stamp of approval. If I didn’t make it, I must have done something wrong. Not too dissimilar to how some missionaries view becoming a zone leader or assistant to the president. I offer this up as an example of something that may work on people’s psyche.
It may be less of an issue for rising generations as the outward call-outs to a persons’ PH office fade away.
LH brought up the office of 70. There are a few in my ward, but you’d have to have access to MLS to know. The office of 70 isn’t a thing people can still attain whereas the office of HP is still around and is even more “elite” now – there’s probably more local prestige to being a BP than there is to being a ward missionary.
Comparing ourselves to others, and comparing people in general… ain’t being human great!
To me, the offices in the priesthood seem superficial. What’s the real difference between a HP and an Elder? A HP can serve in certain callings Elders can’t… if they are given the right keys “by the laying on of hands”. The only way an Elder could serve in those callings are… if they are ordained a HP “by the laying on of hands”. That doesn’t seem like much of a difference to me. Over my “faith transition” my views of the priesthood have changed quite a lot. Maybe that’s part of it. Back when I was orthodox, I held that the priesthood held magical powers; moving mountains, calling the dead back to life, etc. Now it feels like something they pass out to everyone, to build up commitment and devotion to the Church, and helps us to
feelspecial (as opposed to being special). Even from an orthodox view of working miracles, the only happen if God wants them to happen, and if God wants them to happen, do you really need the priesthood? Really, if you don’t hold a leadership calling, the priesthood doesn’t matter much. Or at least, that’s what it feels like to me. Maybe that’s why, unlike a lot of people here, I feel apathetic to women receiving the priesthood. If it’s of God, He can give it to whomever He’d like, whenever He likes. If it’s of man, it feels more like an “attaboy” sticker or participation trophy. It’s not that I would oppose women receiving the priesthood. I think it’d be awesome to have women in many of the callings reserved for men (and visa versa). But the priesthood, the offices… it all feels so empty; like the meaning is whatever you give it, and that’s it.
I think it’s absolutely wonderful. It means you reduce the priesthood management overhead by 50%, leaving people free to serve in other callings. It means the quorum is bigger, so you don’t feel like your part of a losing team when you show up to a meeting with 4 people, in some Wards. Overall, a very positive change.
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