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Hey! My Name is Gökhan and I am from Berlin, Germany.
I was baptized into the Church in May 2011 and got inactive after 3 Months.
Then I came Back in April 2015 until April 2017 where i Resigned and let my Name Removed from Church Records.
I talked to the Bishop for coming Back, and he knows the reasons why I got 1) Inactive, and 2) let my Name Removed from Church Records.
And not I did not made any Transgressions it was purely Administrative as an Sign of Protest because virtually nothing works in my Ward Administrative.
Since I know Church in 2011 we had until 2017 almost just ten to 15 Convert Baptisms and over 90 % of them got Inactive in one or two Month.
My Question would what I should make to come back, even when I know that things are not always Working in my Ward?
I am not here to criticize Something and I am sure there are plenty things that I did wrong, but i just Seeks some Help and Suggestions from Wise Member here at this Forum
Yours Sincerly
Gökhan
Your Bishop will likely put you through a slow process of rebaptism, and then gradual restoration of any priesthood offices you might have had. He wont’ rush it. He will probably be wary too as I find the church leaders don’t take kindly to protest and agitation within the church. He will likely want you to be humble and recant your reasons for resigning in the past, if past history is any indication….
I think you have to decide how much the administrative problems in the church bother you. Why do you want to come back? Are you willing to put aside the angst that caused you to resign in the first place? What was so wrong with the admin that it caused you to resign? These are questions I think you need to answer for yourself before deciding to come back. And they would help us give advice…
I resigned especially because converts virtually atelier non existent That means after baptism they don’t care of you
Even if you regularly visit church they not notice
When I was over an year visiting church and active even the bishop not noticed that I was there, when we sat for an interview he was surprised to tell me You are visiting Church regularly? It was like an joke for him
As I told many convert baptisms went into inactivity because nobody at least in my ward cares for their Integration they aren’t asked to pray or get an calling
Even I did not got an calling only the few elite in the ward gets anything
After I had the aaronic priesthood nobody asked me to bless the sacrament or to pass it
Even the missionaries have almost just hard times because nobody cares much about the investigator they brought it’s only their interest
Any hard work they do is damaged in few weeks after baptism
Im really sorry to say that but that’s the experience I made, I do not write to criticise it’s just the thing I have lived
SilentDawning wrote:
Your Bishop will likely put you through a slow process of rebaptism, and then gradual restoration of any priesthood offices you might have had. He wont’ rush it.He will probably be wary too as I find the church leaders don’t take kindly to protest and agitation within the church. He will likely want you to be humble and recant your reasons for resigning in the past, if past history is any indication….
I think you have to decide how much the administrative problems in the church bother you. Why do you want to come back? Are you willing to put aside the angst that caused you to resign in the first place? What was so wrong with the admin that it caused you to resign? These are questions I think you need to answer for yourself before deciding to come back. And they would help us give advice…
bgoekhan wrote:
Im really sorry to say that but that’s the experience I made, I do not write to criticise it’s just the thing I have lived
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I’ve seen what you describe, usually as it relates to reactivating inactive members. There’s a big push to reactivate someone where they receive lots of attention, then once the person is reintegrated into the ward, the focus shifts elsewhere. It happens with new converts as well. There’s a focus to get a new person integrated into a ward and often that support is cut out from under a person when people think the work has been done. It sounds like your ward didn’t do a good job of even giving you that initial support.
To be honest with you, most of what I’ve experienced at church could best be described as being alone in a crowd. I’m super introvertive, there may be some social anxiety at work there as well, but I have a hard time connecting with people at church. Each ward has a different personality, some are more welcoming than others.
What I’ve experienced is that at church we make assignments for people to fellowship new or visiting people. In my opinion, where we make a mistake is in failing to realize that not everyone has a personality type where they can hit it off with an assigned friend. For some it is very difficult to approach strangers, if a person like that receives an assignment to fellowship a stranger they may drop the ball because they were assigned to do something that causes them a lot of anxiety.
I feel like I’m making excuses, but I’m not trying to. Another thing I see at church is that the people with highly visible/demanding callings (bishop, relief society president, elders quorum president)… and most everyone else, are worn out and often overworked. There’s only so much time in the day and there’s a never ending list of people to fellowship. Once leaders
*thinkthat someone is fully integrated into the ward they move on to the next person, which means the attention level a person once enjoyed drops off. After a while leaders can also burn out. The level of effort drops off over time because it’s a grind that gives very little reward and never ends.
I feel for all involved.
One thing you might try… try to become fully integrated into your ward before formally rejoining. That way you have established friends and a social network before the commitment is made. One challenge I see ahead is a repetition of the same pattern. Once you’re back attention will divert elsewhere, due by and large to the obligations the local leaders feel towards other people that aren’t attending.
Best of luck.
Enschuldigen sie mich, weil ich auf Englisch schreibe. Firstly, please understand that name removal is taken very seriously in the church. You may think it is like leaving a club, but in church understanding it is like rejecting the gospel, which is a bigger issue.
The bishop will not see name removal as purely administrative, but say you thought it was. What you describe is common. I take it you are Turkish-German? Are there any others with your background in the ward? I live in a city where a lot of people come and go. We have a lot of students and foreigners. It is difficult for members to get to know them.
Are you a Young Single Adult (18-30)? If so, you try and find out what they are doing. They usually have meetings on a Monday night.
Here’s what I recommend:
* Speak to the bishop politely and say that you feel that converts are left alone.
* If you get rebaptised, ask about Home Teachers. Find out who your home teachers are, and meet with them at the chapel.
* Say you would like to pass the sacrament as you have not done so before.
* Show commitment – more than three months.
* Find out who the good people in the ward are, and talk to them. Some of them may be very shy (scheu) like me so find it hard to talk to new people.
* Befriend other converts. You will be in the Gospel Principles class (i don’t know what they call it in German) and will get to meet them there. Start your own new social group.
* If you are on Facebook, join local LDS groups on it.
* Go to church events which don’t happen in the 3 hour block. Most wards have some.
* Keep posting here. You will get a lot of good advice.
Since you are in Berlin, there will be other wards. Try going to one or two others and see how different they are.
Hi Gökhan, In the Church, I think it is considered a heavier transgression to have your name removed from the Church, than to commit adultery. It’s viewed to most leaders as treasonous self-damnation. I don’t agree with this view, but in all likelihood it’s how the Church leaders will view it. I’d start just by coming back to Church, and involving yourself as much as you are able. When you finally get around to talking to your bishop, put on your best repentance face, and make no excuses.
I think the difficulty you’ve experienced will help you to be a better member. It’s very easy to let the newer members and less-known get passed to the sidelines in the Church. I like in other denominations how the preacher will make everyone stand up and shake hands with everyone around them.
I think you are one of the few who can get things working in your ward.
To answer your questions When i Joined Church I was apprx 20 now im heading to 29 Yes, I am an Turkish-German thats true
I always talked about those topic with recent converts and he told mwe always he does not thinks like me
I had Home teachers and they did not had any intrest in Home Teaching me, the bishop did not found anyone else because nobody wanted home teaching.
I have contacts to my YSA but even they are a plenty other world, most of them are talking about her mission what they will made or make and I di not serve an mission so most of time they see my like an Alien
We dont have an Gospel Principles Class mostly since I know Church, they put anyone in the Regular Class
I have two convert friends but they face the same, the one is a male he does not care what church does the other 48 year old women is just visiting church every week she has not any intrest in the Temple or anything else
I know anything wrote sounds negative and likely he doesnt want change aynything but that is not the truth.
Any try i make is blocked! I dont really now what to do
SamBee wrote:
Enschuldigen sie mich, weil ich auf Englisch schreibe.Firstly, please understand that name removal is taken very seriously in the church. You may think it is like leaving a club, but in church understanding it is like rejecting the gospel, which is a bigger issue.
The bishop will not see name removal as purely administrative, but say you thought it was. What you describe is common. I take it you are Turkish-German? Are there any others with your background in the ward? I live in a city where a lot of people come and go. We have a lot of students and foreigners. It is difficult for members to get to know them.
Are you a Young Single Adult (18-30)? If so, you try and find out what they are doing. They usually have meetings on a Monday night.
Here’s what I recommend:
* Speak to the bishop politely and say that you feel that converts are left alone.
* If you get rebaptised, ask about Home Teachers. Find out who your home teachers are, and meet with them at the chapel.
* Say you would like to pass the sacrament as you have not done so before.
* Show commitment – more than three months.
* Find out who the good people in the ward are, and talk to them. Some of them may be very shy (scheu) like me so find it hard to talk to new people.
* Befriend other converts. You will be in the Gospel Principles class (i don’t know what they call it in German) and will get to meet them there. Start your own new social group.
* If you are on Facebook, join local LDS groups on it.
* Go to church events which don’t happen in the 3 hour block. Most wards have some.
* Keep posting here. You will get a lot of good advice.
Since you are in Berlin, there will be other wards. Try going to one or two others and see how different they are.
I agree with what has been written. We LDS can be pretty poor at continuing the friendship and support for new converts / reactivation. Like Nibbler said, I think much of this has to do with everyone just being busy with their own lives and is usually not intentional.
Also in the church we have a model where members are expected to covert based on a testimony of the truthfulness of the work and then
endureunpleasantness because of that testimony. My Elder’s Quorum President has repeatedly said that he would rather be outside in nature on Sundays but he feels constrained by his duty to attend church. Church is openly acknowledged to be unpleasant. If you come back to activity, I think it would be smart to expect that the church (globally and locally) will probably not change very much. A large part of the burden for integrating yourself in the ward will fall squarely on your shoulders. Want a calling? ask for one. Want to bless or pass sacrament? ask for it. Want home teachers? Ask for them (With the understanding that they will probably not show up 99% of the time). Want to know people? Introduce yourself and make conversation.
Even after doing everything in your power, there will likely still be frustration and personal tension/conflict. I have learned to live with that frustration. I use several coping mechanisms to help me deal with it. I stay because I still believe that the good offered by the church to myself and my family is greater than the bad and frustrating parts. I believe that to be a personal decision and analysis that can be different for every individual person.
Roy wrote:
Also in the church we have a model where members are expected to covert based on a testimony of the truthfulness of the work and thenendureunpleasantness because of that testimony. My Elder’s Quorum President has repeatedly said that he would rather be outside in nature on Sundays but he feels constrained by his duty to attend church. Church is openly acknowledged to be unpleasant.
Wow. To see it written out. Wow. But yeah, that’s a lot of people’s experience. I certainly carried that feeling around for a very long time.
Have you tried other wards Gökhan? This might be an option. There will be a few in Berlin. A lot of wards have the same problems but they are not all exactly the same. Roy wrote:
Also in the church we have a model where members are expected to covert based on a testimony of the truthfulness of the work and thenendureunpleasantness because of that testimony. My Elder’s Quorum President has repeatedly said that he would rather be outside in nature on Sundays but he feels constrained by his duty to attend church. Church is openly acknowledged to be unpleasant. Truer words have not been spoken! It always seems to be the members’ fault if they go inactive or have loyalty problems — rarely if ever the church. And they rarely apologize either.
Quote:If you come back to activity, I think it would be smart to expect that the church (globally and locally) will probably not change very much. A large part of the burden for integrating yourself in the ward will fall squarely on your shoulders. Want a calling? ask for one. Want to bless or pass sacrament? ask for it. Want home teachers? Ask for them (With the understanding that they will probably not show up 99% of the time). Want to know people? Introduce yourself and make conversation.
Right, and don’t expect excellence in executing your requests either, by the local leaders. The church is very much an exercise in patience in many Wards with our unpaid local ministry, and a limited pool of people who often/sometimes are acting out of duty rather than passion for their calling.
Quote:Even after doing everything in your power, there will likely still be frustration and personal tension/conflict. I have learned to live with that frustration. I use several coping mechanisms to help me deal with it. I stay because I still believe that the good offered by the church to myself and my family is greater than the bad and frustrating parts. I believe that to be a personal decision and analysis that can be different for every individual person.
Good advice — we all have our ways of coping. I have learned to accept a certain amount of mediocrity, not to WANT anything from the church, and to reduce my commitment to match the indifference to excellence I see in our local wards. But that often takes self-discipline and posting here to work through it…
Thank you for the many responses you wrote here. Well , im just curious about why some outsider from other Christian Faiths or even an Moslem or Jew and especially Non-Believing People would have then the desire to get baptised to Our Church when there especially mayn christian churches outside where they maybe will integrated better.
Especially they asked me because of my Turkish roots how they can Mission Turks or Moslems, and my response is always the same
There are plenty different thought of view what a Turk learned in his life.
When someone makes a Sin nobody runs to the Imam (moslem counterpart to an Bishop) and asks for repentance, they would even criticize mostly the Imam that he should not get into personal matters, Repentace for Turks and moslems espeically are between God and them.
Now explain me how I should tell an moslem who will eventually Join our Church when he makes an Sin he must talk to the Bishop and repent and would maybe get “punished” by the bishop, those will get out of Church very fast
Yes, even I have plenty problems, last Week I have got diagnosed an Bipolar Disorder, so that makes it even more Hard to come back, but I will give my best even when I dont see the Light at the end of the way
bgoekhan wrote:
Well , im just curious about why some outsider from other Christian Faiths or even an Moslem or Jew and especially Non-Believing People would have then the desire to get baptised to Our Church when there especially mayn christian churches outside where they maybe will integrated better.
People join the church because they believe it to be the one true way (or most true way) to heavenly reward. The expectation is that you would slowly abandon previous traditions and cultural practices and slowly adopt LDS “gospel culture” traditions and cultural practices.
The Jehovah’s Witness church is similar. My observation is that it is a high sacrifice church. The expectation is that you will be willing to give up all things to gain the approval of God. In my observation the JW church is more extreme in this expectation than the LDS.
bgoekhan wrote:
When someone makes a Sin nobody runs to the Imam (moslem counterpart to an Bishop) and asks for repentance, they would even criticize mostly the Imam that he should not get into personal matters, Repentace for Turks and moslems espeically are between God and them.
In Christianity, it depends on the church. In Protestant churches, repentance is generally between God and them, but they have church discipline for extreme cases. In Roman Catholic churches, you have to tell the priest everything, in much more detail than the LDS.
But in Islam, there is sharia law and certain things can b punished, depending on the denomination.
bgoekhan wrote:
Well , im just curious about why some outsider from other Christian Faiths or even an Moslem or Jew and especially Non-Believing People would have then the desire to get baptised to Our Church when there especially mayn christian churches outside where they maybe will integrated better.
Again, depends on the church. There are churches which are a lot less friendly than ours, and some which are friendlier.
But in many churches, it depends who is with you locally. Some LDS wards are easier to live in than others.
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