Conflicted

[Anonymous]

Hello. I am new to this discussion board but am excited and relieved to find a safe place where I can vent and express my feelings. Sorry this initial post is so long!

I am a people-pleaser and peacemaker–been that way all of my life. I am also a life-long member of the LDS Church. My husband, who is a convert, is extremely supportive and for the most part, feels the same way. We have been married for 22+ years, temple marriage. I feel like I have spent most of my life feeling guilty. I tend to over-analyze my behavior and conversations, especially those with other church members. I have spent the last couple of weeks really trying to figure out what is bothering me and why I am feeling anger and resentment towards my membership in the church–and why I feel SO guilty for feeling this way. I believe I’ve narrowed it down to two reasons:

1. I’m overwhelmed, burned-out, and can’t remember that last time I was spiritually fed at church. Since I turned 12 years old (I’m well into my 40’s now), I’ve held various callings in the church. I have been RS President and Primary President several times along with many other callings. I’m tired. I’ve seen and heard too much from imperfect, judgmental members. With the exception of about 4 years as a SAHM, I have also worked full time. I love my career but spend ALL my time feeling guilty that I’m not a SAHM. Thus, I spend ALL my time trying to make it up to my family (who love and support me and accept me for the mom and wife I am) and trying to prove to the members that I can work and still be a church-going superstar–haha–yeah, not really working for me. I feel like I’m about to have a breakdown. I currently have a calling that requires me to get a substitute if I am not at church–it’s easier to go than to get a substitute–but I’d really really like a break and would love to feel what it’s like to get up on a Sunday morning and go to church because I have a genuine desire to go, not because I have a calling that requires it. I have also spent the last 8 years in very demanding callings and I feel like my list of priorities have been 1.Work & Church Callings, 2. Family. I honestly believe this has been detrimental to my family. I’ve taken steps at work to lighten my work load and have informed co-workers of my desire to put family first as much as possible–they are very supportive of this. I want to be released from my calling and just take a break from attending church for awhile, but when you’ve been the RS President in the not-so-distant past, I’m not sure how that will be taken and I don’t want it to seem like I’m apostatizing (sp?). Did I mention I’m a people-pleaser?

2. I really really struggle with the WofW. I love coffee, always have. Up until about 2 years ago, I’ve been able to curb my desire, until I started working longer hours, my husband started working out of town, and our children became teenagers. I can go into a list of excuses as to why I drink coffee but honestly, I just really enjoy the taste and I feel happy when I am relaxing in the morning with a cup. I’ve also drank alcohol some the last two years (by some I mean less than 5 or 6 times). Each time it was one glass only. I have found that one glass, very occasionally, helps me to relax. So–I feel very conflicted–torn in two because I have one part of me that knows what is expected of me as a member of this church and I feel so guilty, so inadequate to even be a TR holder and member of this church and yet I have another part of me that feels like “I’m an adult–I don’t need permission from anyone to not go to church sometimes and to drink coffee and occasionally have a glass of wine.” I’ve read several posts here about the WofW, and I just feel more guilty because it seems to be the one area that few people struggle with, except me. We can debate all day about what is included, or not included in the WofW, but we all know that coffee, alcohol, and tobacco are specifically mentioned. Yes, I feel like I’m just thumbing my nose at this doctrine, but I think it has become a bit of a coping mechanism for me. One area in my life that I have complete control over, if that makes sense.

So–I’m sitting on the fence. One day, I’m ready to just be done. Done with the guilt, the self-punishment, the unhappiness. The next, I’m feeling so guilty that I want to practically run to my Bishop’s house and confess everything, hoping against all hope that repentance will make me feel better even though I know I’m not ready to quit drinking coffee or wine and I REALLY want a break from church. Any advice/thoughts would be much appreciated, I’m at my wits end.

[Anonymous]

Hi Conflicted. Welcome to the board. I haven’t been here too long, but it’s been a great source of support and varying points of view for me as I navigate my changing views on the church and the role it plays in my faith and my life. It’s been great to have a place to express my thoughts and frustrations without feeling threatened or judged.

I don’t have any wonderful words of wisdom. There are many here who are more wise and eloquent than I am and I’m sure you’ll benefit from the discussions and viewpoints offered.

I’m a SAHM for the last 10 years, mostly out of guilt, but am working towards getting a graduate degree and gradually doing more and more work outside the home. It feels wonderful and my husband and kids are very supportive of me. I’m impressed that you’ve been able to manage full time work, demanding callings, and your family for so long. It sounds like it’s definitely time for a bit of self-care and more time for your family.

I don’t think there would be anything wrong with you approaching your bishop and asking for a break from callings. You’ve most definitely given the church plenty of service over the years and it sounds like a rest would be beneficial to you. It would give you time and space to think and sort things out and I’m sure your family would love having you available more.

I hope to hear more from you on the boards.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the welcome and kind words MayB!

Re-reading my post makes me think that I sound a bit dramatic but, that’s how I feel. I’ve been looking at the Internet recently and contemplating what a cafeteria Mormon or an Unorthodox Mormon may be. I believe I am more like them and less like TBM (I think that’s the acronym for Traditional) and now I’m just trying to come to grips with where I go from here and what do I REALLY believe.

I was saddened to read some posts (on various blogs) of TBM who feel that if you are a “cafeteria mormon’, you have no place really saying you are a mormon and they wouldn’t want their children being taught by someone like that (in YW, YM, or Primary) nor would they want their children to be friends with people/families who feel that way. I don’t understand this and do not want to be shunned, but maybe that is the only way to find peace?

Congrats on working towards your Graduate Degree–that’s fantastic! I wish you the best of luck and am happy that you have a supportive family. I’ve been so blessed within my own family.

[Anonymous]

Welcome!

As we say a lot here, every member is a cafeteria Mormon who picks and chooses what s/he can accept and believe and dismisses everything else. Seriously, we all do it – only some of us are conscious of doing it and, therefore, do it intentionally and carefully.

Think about it for just a moment:

To name a few easy examples, we have had Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Bruce R. McConkie, David O. McKay, Joseph B. Wirthlin, Boyd K. Packer and Dieter F. Uchtdorf as apostles and Presidents – and they haven’t exactly seen eye-to-eye on lots of things. The ancient church had John and Paul – and they saw lots of things VERY differently. There is WAY too much conflicting opinion in our history from top leaders for anyone, and I mean anyone, to accept and follow it all. It. Can’t. Be. Done – so each member internalizes what resonates with her, accepts but ignores what doesn’t cause any particular emotional reaction and rejects (consciously or unconsciously – or through lack of exposure) anything that just doesn’t register or make sense.

Again, welcome. I hope you and we gain something of importance from your involvement here.

[Anonymous]

Welcome, conflicted. I feel for you. I don’t have half of your responsibilities, but I had to be released from one of my callings. I am recovering from addictions and am managing physical and mental disabilities. I would agree with what’s been said about being released from your callings, so you can spend more time with your family and take care of yourself. I will pray for you that you will be able to find peace and your bishop will be understanding. I hope to hear more from you.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your welcome thoughts and wishes! I’m so so grateful that I found this site!

As I’ve mentioned before, I’ve been struggling with the demands of church membership for awhile now, I believe that’s why I’ve turned away from the WofW. So, I’ve literally spent the last day and almost all of last night reading all the posts here and, honestly, I didn’t understand anything in the History and Doctrine sections until I watched John P. Dehlin, “Why People Leave the LDS Church”, the newest version. Okay, so I have never in my life heard of any of those historical inconsistencies! Nothing–not one word about any of it–have I been hiding under a rock my entire life?!?!??

I guess I have always just had faith that it was true. Always. Even lately, my struggles have been more with “what’s wrong with me” that it’s “so hard to live all the teachings” and just general feelings of inadequacy. I’m feeling a bit shell-shocked. Speechless. This is going to seem really strange, but now, the idea of the cafeteria approach is so logical–I am feeling relieved that I feel NO GUILT for saying and truly believing that now.

I have NO desire to even look at any anti-mormon site because I’m afraid that will add fuel to the fire right now. That is not what I want. I’m so grateful for safe places like this site where I can learn more and be heard and share with others who understand without feeling like I’m betraying my entire identity, history, and faith.

I think right now, I’m just going to take some time to process everything. I honestly feel a bit sick to my stomach actually…

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I love my career but spend ALL my time feeling guilty that I’m not a SAHM.

The following is straight from “The Family: A Proclamation to the World”:

Quote:

In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation.

There are NO qualifiers on the phrase “or other circumstances“. It is left wide open, so it includes any other circumstances.

That means, in practical terms, that each couple is left with the right and responsibility to structure their nurturing and providing efforts in whatever way makes the most sense for them as an individual couple.

“Guilt” is a word that means someone has done something that is judged to be wrong within a system – that, in legal terms, is a “crime”. Based on everything that has been said over the last 15-20 years, at least, a wife working outside the home is not a “crime” of any kind and, therefore, carries no official “guilt”. You are feeling guilty because of the cultural pressure left over from President Benson’s talk where he encouraged wives to stay home and not work and all of the generalized references to that standard since then – but even that talk included the qualifier “when possible” (or whatever the exact wording was), and, most importantly, over 50% of Mormon mothers now work outside the home to some degree.

Our current leaders recognize that, so they no longer are preaching a strict SAHM standard. That won’t change years of conditioning immediately for you, but I hope it helps to realize that “every mother a stay-at-home mother” simply isn’t the official teaching of the LDS Church, even if many of the top leadership would like it to be in cases where it is possible.

So, there is no “guilt” associated with you working outside the home. I hope you can begin to let go of your guilty feelings, and framing it terms of following the counsel of the apostles in “The Family: A Proclamation to the World” might help initially.

[Anonymous]

So, you just opened another can of worms with all the historic stuff. If you are dealing with your other issues and the new stuff, I can understand why you are feeling sick. Many here have been there. I am on the high council and about a year ago after doing some research I remember laying in bed and the thought hit me, “what if this church really isn’t true.” Honestly, that had never crossed my mind. I had to get out of bed and head to the bathroom because I thought that I was going to throw up. Scary times but I am working through them and I find myself in a pretty good place.

This site is a good place to work through your issues and hopefully you have found the we are not big on passing judgements. All of here are trying to do the same thing, make our new belief system work while keeping as much of the old way of thinking as is comfortable. I would recommend living the WoW the best way you can for now and come back to that later if needed. Maybe take a break from your calling but I would recommend that you not take a break from going to church because that might make it too easy to just forget the whole thing and might disrupt your family life too much. There are many of us that post regularly that are in our 40s and 50s so in that regard you are in good company.

I have found that as I adjust my thinking regarding the church that I now think more in terms of my relationship to God, my family, my fellow man than I do to the church. I still value the church as a whole and see a lot of good, but it is not the end all as it once was. I still want to be part of the LDS experience and my life will always be connected to the church, but in the end it is Christ that will save us and not the church. I now realize that they are not the same but still connected.

Please keep posting and I would caution you to take it slow. Some of the emotions you are feeling today will not be the same in 3 months, 6 months etc. I have seen many people jump off the cliff without a lot of thought of where they are going to land.

[Anonymous]

What church0333 said – except the following:

Quote:

There are many of us that post regularly that are in our 40s and 50s

:shh: 👿 :silent:

I’m only 27. I started having kids when I was 2.

[Anonymous]

Welcome, I’m glad you found this safe place to express your concerns. I often wonder about the WoW as well. Why was it changed from advice to command? What about moderation in all things? Is a morning cup of Joe really so bad that a person should be barred from attending the temple? It doesn’t sit well with me right now, even though I haven’t “broken” the WoW myself, I think it’s original intention has been taken to an extreme. I guess I have some more research to do:) If I learn anything that could help you I’ll let you know. Right now, my focus is on church history. Like you, I had to take a hit to my reality when my eyes were opened to the realities of the past that didn’t match up with the glowing representation I’d been taught all my life. I’ve gotten past the scary, foundation shaking part now…and it’s actually a little thrilling…I want to know everything, and with the fear gone that my faith will be shaken ( it already has been, so I might as well learn about as much of the good, bad & ugly as I can) I feel driven to acquire all the information I can. I’m picking up Joseph Smith Rough Stone Rolling today, it was recommended to me here as a fair approach to Joseph Smith. I plan on staying in bed ( a break from church is a good thing every once in a while for me and reading it tomorrow. I wish you the best on your journey and hope that you get the peace that you are looking for.

[Anonymous]

conflicted wrote:

I’m overwhelmed, burned-out, and can’t remember that last time I was spiritually fed at church. Since I turned 12 years old (I’m well into my 40’s now), I’ve held various callings in the church. I have been RS President and Primary President several times along with many other callings. I’m tired…. I feel like I’m about to have a breakdown. I currently have a calling that requires me to get a substitute if I am not at church–it’s easier to go than to get a substitute–but I’d really really like a break and would love to feel what it’s like to get up on a Sunday morning and go to church because I have a genuine desire to go, not because I have a calling that requires it. I have also spent the last 8 years in very demanding callings and I feel like my list of priorities have been 1.Work & Church Callings, 2. Family. I honestly believe this has been detrimental to my family.

Welcome, conflicted!

Could you ask for a different calling, something that doesn’t threaten your health and sanity? I know very well, since I am a hard-core people-pleaser, that this might be difficult. But it sounds like you DO want to go to church on the Sabbath day and come away renewed and refreshed. It doesn’t make sense to me to lose out on that because asking to be released is too awkward.

It’s up to the church to figure out how to function when the people in it are tending to First Things first. Maybe we’re on the verge of another Sunday meeting schedule overhaul, or who-knows-what, but that’s not your call or your problem. Maybe some of what we’re doing in the church right now, in spite of many recent changes, still puts us “in the thick of thin things,” like Neal A. Maxwell said.

One thing I can share that might help is my experience with very earnest, adult convert parents. In so many ways I was blessed by their choices, and I do honor them, but, especially with my dad, we were third. First work, then church, then us. And he only had two rounds of “nice” in him because of chronic pain problems, so we hardly ever got to see that side of him.

[Anonymous]

Reading through posts, I have been so comforted! Many of your thoughts really hit home and I wanted to quote some of them in case they can help others–THANKS for taking the time to reply:

Quote:

“Guilt” is a word that means someone has done something that is judged to be wrong within a system – that, in legal terms, is a “crime”.

Quote:

I have found that as I adjust my thinking regarding the church that I now think more in terms of my relationship to God, my family, my fellow man than I do to the church. I still value the church as a whole and see a lot of good, but it is not the end all as it once was. I still want to be part of the LDS experience and my life will always be connected to the church, but in the end it is Christ that will save us and not the church. I now realize that they are not the same but still connected.

Quote:

There is WAY too much conflicting opinion in our history from top leaders for anyone, and I mean anyone, to accept and follow it all. It. Can’t. Be. Done – so each member internalizes what resonates with her, accepts but ignores what doesn’t cause any particular emotional reaction and rejects (consciously or unconsciously – or through lack of exposure) anything that just doesn’t register or make sense.

Quote:

“in the thick of thin things,” like Neal A. Maxwell said.

So, I spent Saturday away from the computer and just enjoyed my family. Today, I went to church with your advice and experiences “running through my head”. Funny thing, today’s SM topic: Word of Wisdom! Haha! Of course! Instead of mentally berating myself with guilt, I really thought about what you all have said and I was able to actually enjoy the talk (shockingly enough), partly because I’m anxiously working on letting go of my inadequacies & guilt and partly because the speaker focused more on the “yes” part of the WofW and less on the “no” part. It helped me to realize that there is a large portion that I AM doing, so that was a success. Focus on positives, not negatives.

Thanks again for your supportive words and for providing this non-judgemental space! I will continue to take things one day at time…

[Anonymous]

First of all …. HUGS!!! I say this b/c I am right about where you are. I just watched that video for the first time last night. Shell shocked is the EXACT word I told my husband. And all of the words that were what people feel when they find out the history. I feel very betrayed, tricked, duped, stupid, naive. I had a temper tantrum this morning, sobbed to my husband. He is pretty TBM, he is OK when he finds out these things but he still said “How do you know those people know the real history? What if their true desire is to cause people to leave”. I didn’t look up the information, but I know in my heart that if I did I would find all the facts.. I feel like my eyes have been opened and it is too late to go back to sleep. I say it every time I post, but I am SO GRATEFUL for this site. It keeps me from jumping off the cliff before I know if it is safe. I am a pretty fiery personality and at times don’t act rationally.. yet I am a people pleaser as well…

I swear I could have written your post.

I am also serving in the RS.. I drank coffee for the first time in 20 years 3 days ago… I am planning on going to the temple sometime this week because I want to see it differently. If I don’t like I won’t go again for a while. I have been drinking green tea for months as I feel it is healthier and less damaging than my Mt. Dew. For some reason I feel more guilty about the coffee even though I drank it cold (which for some reason I feel is healthier…. don’t even try to understand my crazy head..haha)

I went to my bishop to talk to him about how I was feeling (before I found this site) and I swear my tongue was held b/c when I left I realized that I said hardly anything of my true concerns. I did, however, tell him that I need to take a break from callings right now as I am in my last semester of school. I also told him that this religion makes God seem more mean, judgmental than what I feel that He is. After reading some of the “advice” on this site I feel the best thing to do is for me to keep my mouth shut, take it slow, and to be careful of who I share my thoughts with. So glad my tongue was tied… I said enough though…. I went home and told my husband “Great! Now I am going to be a “focus family!”..haha

To keep a secret or my thoughts hidden goes against my nature 100%. I tell everyone pretty much every thought in my head if I feel guilty. I believe secrets fuel shame… but I honestly can’t be the one who causes someone to see the church differently. It is their own journey. If someones asks and I feel “prompted” I can share or empathize.

I am not sure what your reasons for staying in the church are or what good things have come from you being a member, but that is what my motivation is today. I really try hard to focus on the good things. It is harder for me today than yesterday. But I guess I will plan on the eb and flow for now and try to trust that when I pray to feel if I should stay that is really the answer that is right for me, not just me working out of fear.

I hope you will find peace in whatever you decide!! I also hope you find peace with the history of the church … for myself as well.

I wanted to share some of what I love to help me remember b/c I am pretty grumpy:) I hope you don’t mind:

I love the people, I call them my people.

I love that no matter where I go in the world, with few exceptions, I can find my people.

I feel safe that if we lose income we would be taken care of.

I love that it promotes families and family units (even though I wish they would include gay families… just my opinion)

I love the service the church does world wide with little attention or praise.

I love that it is been the hugest part in my spiritual development so far.

I love that my beliefs helped shaped my family unit that I love and feel safe in.

I love that the religion taught me to ask God and He will answer.

I love that young people get to learn how to serve unselfishly if they choose to go on a mission, I am grateful for the people who I served with and the lessons I learned.

ahhhhh… that feels better. I can do this one more day:)

Hope you feel safe and comfortable to come back and share your journey.

Namaste.

[Anonymous]

I just noticed that you posted again while I was writing my previous. I am so excited for you!! Hurray for letting go of guilt and focusing on the positive. Thank you for the example!

[Anonymous]

Thanks opentofreedom! Loved the humor in your post and I can SO relate! “Focus family”, hahahaha… (been there)

I will keep your list of “loves” in the back of my mind as I continue working through the historical “bombshell”! Best wishes and prayers to you as you go along your journey as well. So glad we have this site to be able to encourage each other :thumbup:

[Author]

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